Which is your choice: 7C or 7NT?

[dalmov]

You have a power house at hand, and the bidding has gone as shown. What is your choice: 7♣ or 7NT?[hv=pc=n&s=skhaq98daq3ca7532&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2cp3cp4np5sp]133|200[/hv]

[foobar]

Is pard allowed to hold AQxxx xxx xx KQJ? If so, can scramble to 12 tricks with a bit of luck, but 13 seems mighty optimistic at this point.

[JanisW]

Why did I Keycard after 3♣? I wasted almost 3 Lvls of bidding and all I got was A♠, KQ♣

Was 2♣ gf? Was 3♣ gf 15+ and 12-14 has to bid a temporising 2♠?

Furthermore I'm not terribly happy to be in a grand on a 5-3 Fit especially lacking any intermediates. I might not be able to pick up Jxxx even if the 10 drops singleton...

 

Anyhow I'll ask for Kings and if there are 2 I'll bid 7NT if there is only 1 King I'll settle for 7♣ because I might have to promote a 5th/6th ♠ in partners hand by ruffing, intendig to score 4♠, 4 ♥/♦, 5♣ when 7NT will be on a finesse.

 

regards

JW

[Tramticket]

You have a power house at hand, and the bidding has gone as shown. What is your choice: 7♣ or 7NT?[hv=pc=n&s=skhaq98daq3ca7532&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2cp3cp4np5sp]133|200[/hv]

 

Is it IMPs or MPs?

 

You haven't told us your system, but why can't partner hold ♠AJXXX ♥JX ♦JX ♣KQXX. I'm not convinced that your chosen auction has shown you 13 tricks?

 

In answer to your question, if I were to bid a grand slam, clubs might give me extra tricks / safety and I would choose clubs at IMPs. I would not expect many pairs to bid a grand slam at pairs, so if forced I would choose the likely easier one - clubs.

[FelicityR]

From your BBO profile I see that you say you are at 'intermediate' level, and play SAYC, and this is absolutely no criticism of yourself but many players bash out 4NT Blackwood as a universal bid when they have other options available. As other commentators have indicated, partner might not have the right cards for either 7♣ or 7NT to be bid.

 

The trick with slam bidding is to be able to bid slowly to build up a picture of your partner's hand. The first thing to recognise from the auction is that you have agreed a trump suit ♣s, and that you have an extra card in the suit, and that partner must see as forcing any new suit that is bid, in this instance, ♦s or ♥s. That is the way forward.

[Cyberyeti]

Is pard allowed to hold AQxxx xxx xx KQJ? If so, can scramble to 12 tricks with a bit of luck, but 13 seems mighty optimistic at this point.

 

I wouldn't bid 3♣ with that, won't play well opposite the ♣xxxx my partner always holds if I do this, I'd expect him to have 4.

[bluerib]

Don't pay so much attention to the profile: it was there for long time without being updated. Besides, do people have to tell you their real rank?

The system is SAYC, yes! And the response of 5S to 4NT ensures 5 key-cards, as usual. What could they be?

[bluerib]

The full board is as shown. There were some twenty pairs in the session: 2 reaches 7♣ and 1 7NT.[hv=pc=n&s=skhaq98daq3ca7532&w=sj764ht7642d95c94&n=sat983hkjdt8ckqt8&e=sq52h53dkj7642cj6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2cp3cp4np5sp]399|300[/hv]

[DozyDom]

I wouldn't bid 3♣ with that, won't play well opposite the ♣xxxx my partner always holds if I do this, I'd expect him to have 4.

I may be wrong - I've only just woken up - but KQJx in clubs and xx in hearts is still only a 50% grand, which shouldn't be bid.

[Cyberyeti]

I may be wrong - I've only just woken up - but KQJx in clubs and xx in hearts is still only a 50% grand, which shouldn't be bid.

 

I don't understand your comment, unless you've replied to the wrong post it's nowhere close to 50%.

 

What you need for the grand to be good is ♠Axxxx, ♣KQxx and a red king plus SOMETHING else, be that ♠Q, ♥J, the other red K, an extra black card. Even without an extra a 2-2 trump break gets you home and you have plenty of chances if they're 3-1.

 

I would have cue bid it up, but 5N over 5♠ in the original auction - 6♥(specific K)-7♣ is not unreasonable

[Tramticket]

The full board is as shown. There were some twenty pairs in the session: 2 reaches 7♣ and 1 7NT.[hv=pc=n&s=skhaq98daq3ca7532&w=sj764ht7642d95c94&n=sat983hkjdt8ckqt8&e=sq52h53dkj7642cj6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2cp3cp4np5sp]399|300[/hv]

 

On the actual hand, 7NT seems to need a successful diamond finesse, whereas 7♣ is ok unless East holds all four trumps or you suffer an early ruff.

 

A better auction might be 1♠, 2♣; 3♣, 3♦(1); 3NT, 4♣(2); 4♥(3), 4NT; 5♠(4), 5NT; 6♥(5), 7♣

 

(1) 3♦ will be taken as a NT probe initially

(2) 4♣ slam try in clubs - now suggests that 3♦ was a cue bid (1st or 2nd round control).

(3) 4♥ cue bid (1st or 2nd round control).

(4) 5♠ two key cards + ♣Q

(5) 6♥ king of hearts

[ggwhiz]

I too play specific kings and it's important here.

 

Opposite the ♦K instead of hearts you may be 50-50 for 6nt with 6♣ cold but that ship has sailed although you should have squeeze chances as well.

 

I do expect partner to have 4-card club support much more often than not but was taught that greed at the slam level is a sin not to mention a grand. 7♣ has many more chances than 7nt either ruffing the spades good or xx, Kx for openers red suits.

 

The same can be said for 6♣ vs 6nt so cue bidding is the way to go.

[Cyberyeti]

I too play specific kings and it's important here.

 

Opposite the ♦K instead of hearts you may be 50-50 for 6nt with 6♣ cold but that ship has sailed although you should have squeeze chances as well.

 

 

Misanalysis, 6N is on a finesse whatever except that partner has ♥J. Also if the OP doesn't show voids to blackwood could be embarrassing if partner was 6034 (5035 is even worse) and couldn't take the finesse, you now need spades 3-3.

[msjennifer]

My choice is 5NT asking for the kings at the same time confirming all keycards and the queen.With my regular partner my choice is the Spiral 5NT..A decision can be made then only.Why say “ if he has this and that “?

[maartenxq]

As others say, first 3 ♦ and see what happens. P will bid 3 ♥or 3 NT. Now After 3 NT 4 NT is quanti so 4 ♣forcing. 4 ♠4 NT 5 ♠5 NT. As it is ♥Kx proves to be invaluable but difficult to discover.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[nekthen]

[hv=pc=n&s=skhaq98daq3ca7532&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2cp3cp4np5sp]133|200[/hv]

 

I disagree with those who want to cue bid; we want to know about AS and KQC once we get the nod on those using RKCB our next bid is 5N. Now with both red Kings partner bids 7C which we convert to 7N. In this case he will bid 6H and we will bid 7C because we have extra chances by ruffing spades.

If I start cue bidding, partner might do something stupid like bidding 5C, in which case I will probably have to settle for 6 or punt 7 with little to go on.

 

PS It would be nice to have 4C or 4D agreed as minorwood. It does not matter here, but, other times, we can't afford the luxury of 4N

[DozyDom]

I don't understand your comment, unless you've replied to the wrong post it's nowhere close to 50%.

 

What you need for the grand to be good is ♠Axxxx, ♣KQxx and a red king plus SOMETHING else, be that ♠Q, ♥J, the other red K, an extra black card. Even without an extra a 2-2 trump break gets you home and you have plenty of chances if they're 3-1.

 

I would have cue bid it up, but 5N over 5♠ in the original auction - 6♥(specific K)-7♣ is not unreasonable

I think you were saying AQxxx xxx xx KQJ isn't a 3C bid; I meant that the grand is still not good if p has AQxxx xx xx KQJx, which is a definite 3C bid.

[pescetom]

I disagree with those who want to cue bid; we want to know about AS and KQC once we get the nod on those using RKCB our next bid is 5N. Now with both red Kings partner bids 7C which we convert to 7N. In this case he will bid 6H and we will bid 7C because we have extra chances by ruffing spades.

If I start cue bidding, partner might do something stupid like bidding 5C, in which case I will probably have to settle for 6 or punt 7 with little to go on.

 

PS It would be nice to have 4C or 4D agreed as minorwood. It does not matter here, but, other times, we can't afford the luxury of 4N

 

I don't see why you distrust partner during cue bidding but not in RKCB, but I agree that RKCB is enough in this case.

As you say, 4NT is generally an unaffordable luxury with minors.

We use Crosswood - 4♣ over ♦ and 4♦ over ♣ - and find it works well.

A bonus is that you can easily extend the same scheme to preempts - 4♦ over 3/4 ♣ and 4♣ over 2/3 anything else - instead of playing preempt RKCB.

[Cyberyeti]

I think you were saying AQxxx xxx xx KQJ isn't a 3C bid; I meant that the grand is still not good if p has AQxxx xx xx KQJx, which is a definite 3C bid.

 

And I wouldn't bid it opposite that, would bid 6♣ when partner has no red K, note the grand is not solid even if partner has 5 spade tricks.

 

My actual auction would involve either 4♦ asking for aces leaving the space to ask for a red king or cue bids before 4N to establish no red K then 6♣.

[steve2005]

If you somehow are play SAYC with 1430 and specific King ask consider yourself lucky and start ask with 4N.

None of these are part of SAYC.

How you get Minorwood, Crossword or my personal favourite Kickback into SAYC when SAYC doesn't even have a forcing raise of 1 of a minor I don't know? <end sarcasm>

[rrranade]

The Q is a choice between 2 grands. I have found that Slams play better in NT rather than suits. But yes who am I?

[Cyberyeti]

The Q is a choice between 2 grands. I have found that Slams play better in NT rather than suits. But yes who am I?

 

Really depends if there's a ruff to take in the short hand, or a suit that needs a ruff or two to establish.

[SelfGovern]

I disagree with those who want to cue bid; we want to know about AS and KQC once we get the nod on those using RKCB our next bid is 5N. Now with both red Kings partner bids 7C which we convert to 7N.

[snippage]

 

With both red kings, partner bids 7!C... because he knows you have the spade king or singleton and are definitely not looking for the spade king with xx, AQx, AQ, Axxxxx??

 

 

 

[pescetom]

How you get Minorwood, Crossword or my personal favourite Kickback into SAYC when SAYC doesn't even have a forcing raise of 1 of a minor I don't know? <end sarcasm>

Kickback schemes certainly fit better into 2/1, but you could still play Crosswood in SAYC and use it as a forcing raise of 1 of a minor, e.g. 1♣ - 4♦ as a fit-showing RKCB in ♣. Of course it means giving up some natural bidding sequences involving both minors, but they are easily identifiable and not particularly useful in natural terms, unlike their equivalents involving the majors in a pure Kickback scheme.

[AyunuS]

Honestly I'd think you'd best just go for 6NT here. You never got a good read on partner's hand so it's best to just assume they only have about 12 HCP. That combined with your 19 is only about 31, but you have good finesse/endplay options to likely make 6NT anyways. But your partner is likely missing one or even both red kings, so grand doesn't seem likely enough to be worth bidding. However, if you made a cuebid before going to 4NT, and then partner had made a cuebid, then I'd go for grand, but the bidding didn't do anything like that.