Any place to run?

[diana_eva]

Team match, IMPs, good opps.

 

You're playing 2/1 vanilla, not that it matters here.

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQT863H5DQT4C982&w=SA9754HJ2D9CAKT53&n=SJ2HAQ763DAK7CQ76&e=SHKT984DJ86532CJ4&k=s&d=w&v=n&a=1S2HPPDPP?]399|300[/hv]

What now?

[FelicityR]

Trust partner and pass is my view. If partner makes vulnerable overcalls in 2nd position on rubbish then you should get a new partner. The hand is a misfit. 2NT will play horribly, and bidding 2♠ when you have at least 5 over you is suicide.

[masse24]

Feels like a frying pan to fire position. Pass.

[sfi]

On a good day, partner has the singleton spade jack, RHO has the singleton 9, and we have five trump tricks in 2Sx. But more realistically, I can't score short spades by ruffing hearts so correcting to 2S is a poor proposition. For three of a minor to be right, partner probably needs five of the suit, and even then you may simply have the same losers on the hand.

 

So yeah, it seems like anything but pass is asking for trouble.

[diana_eva]

Is there any way to bid spades naturally here? I didn't think it would be possible to convince pd I want to play in opps' suit - assuming I actually wanted that.

[sfi]

2S should do it. One pair in a recent Australian trials turned -800 into +670 by bidding spades on the same auction. But the spades were KQJTxxx.

 

2NT and redouble are both available to ask partner to pick a suit.

[helene_t]

glp

[MrAce]

Is there any way to bid spades naturally here? I didn't think it would be possible to convince pd I want to play in opps' suit - assuming I actually wanted that.

 

2 ♠. If you wanted to play 3m, you could redouble or bid 2 NT. I think 2 NT should be natural since redouble asks for a minor. But 2♠ is natural.

 

And I would definitely bid it after RHO passed the double ( 2♠.)

[PhilG007]

Unquestionably PASS Let partner struggle in his 2♥ and hope for as small a penalty as is possible.

Any "rescue" by you will just pour petrol on the flames Who knows? The doubler's partner might remove it

(NOT advisable for future partnership harmony) It HAS been known to happen(!)http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

[msjennifer]

Is there any way to bid spades naturally here? I didn't think it would be possible to convince pd I want to play in opps' suit - assuming I actually wanted that.

2S bid ,if made now,has to be natural as the hand has passed the 2H bid . What else can it be unless discussed earlier .?

However,personally,I would not make it opposite a stranger.

[Tramticket]

2S is natural and I expect it to be no worse than 2H - on a good day it might even be better.

[diana_eva]

Thanks all, I didn't know I would be able to bid 2S natural there. I'm not convinced in this particular situation it would have worked, because partner probably wouldn't take it as natural - we didn't discuss, nothing similar ever came up, and so it was a very grey area. But good to know for my regular partnerships.

 

Other table ran to 2NT, followed by 3NT which was not doubled and went down only 1. I passed and went for -1100. 14 IMPs down the drain.

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQT863H5DQT4C982&w=SA9754HJ2D9CAKT53&n=SJ2HAQ763DAK7CQ76&e=SHKT984DJ86532CJ4&d=w&v=n&a=1S2HPPDPP2NP3CP3NPPP&p=HJHAH4H5SJD2S3S5S2D6SKSAH2H6H8C2D3D4D9DADKD5DTC3D7D8DQC5SQS4H3H9STS7H7HTC9CTCQC4C6CJ&c=8]399|300[/hv]

[sacto123]

Thanks all, I didn't know I would be able to bid 2S natural there. I'm not convinced in this particular situation it would have worked, because partner probably wouldn't take it as natural - we didn't discuss, nothing similar ever came out, and so it was a very grey area. But good to know for my regular partnerships.

 

Other table ran to 2NT, followed by 3NT which was not doubled and went down only 1. I passed and went for -1100. 14 IMPs down the drain.

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQT863H5DQT4C982&w=SA9754HJ2D9CAKT53&n=SJ2HAQ763DAK7CQ76&e=SHKT984DJ86532CJ4&d=w&v=n&a=1S2HPPDPP2NP3CP3NPPP&p=HJHAH4H5SJD2S3S5S2D6SKSAH2H6H8C2D3D4D9DADKD5DTC3D7D8DQC5SQS4H3H9STS7H7HTC9CTCQC4C6CJ&c=8]399|300[/hv]

Most of my partners (me too) would not go anywhere near overcalling vulnerable at the 2 level without a chunky 6 card suit. Move diamond K to heart suit and this 16 count is worth a overcall. As it stands, it is worth only a pass.

[maartenxq]

Pass I am afraid.

 

Maarten Baltusseb

[eagles123]

Thanks all, I didn't know I would be able to bid 2S natural there. I'm not convinced in this particular situation it would have worked, because partner probably wouldn't take it as natural - we didn't discuss, nothing similar ever came up, and so it was a very grey area. But good to know for my regular partnerships.

 

Other table ran to 2NT, followed by 3NT which was not doubled and went down only 1. I passed and went for -1100. 14 IMPs down the drain.

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQT863H5DQT4C982&w=SA9754HJ2D9CAKT53&n=SJ2HAQ763DAK7CQ76&e=SHKT984DJ86532CJ4&d=w&v=n&a=1S2HPPDPP2NP3CP3NPPP&p=HJHAH4H5SJD2S3S5S2D6SKSAH2H6H8C2D3D4D9DADKD5DTC3D7D8DQC5SQS4H3H9STS7H7HTC9CTCQC4C6CJ&c=8]399|300[/hv]

 

I wonder what XX by North would be?

[Tramticket]

Most of my partners (me too) would not go anywhere near overcalling vulnerable at the 2 level without a chunky 6 card suit. Move diamond K to heart suit and this 16 count is worth a overcall. As it stands, it is worth only a pass.

 

You must miss an awful lot of vulnerable games if you pass with this 16 count.

 

First choice 2S, second choice take out double. Pass is not a consideration.

[sacto123]

You must miss an awful lot of vulnerable games if you pass with this 16 count.

 

First choice 2S, second choice take out double. Pass is not a consideration.

You make a very good point. I am lucky to have a partner that seldom will let a 1 bid die in 4th seat.

[MrAce]

Diana, the reason I replied I would have bid 2♠ is.

 

A1-Assume you and your pd bidding freely and you both have an equal quality suit vs stiff on the other side. which suit do you want to play in? Most people would want to play in the suit of the weak hand.

A2-For the same reason, you do not want the trump of their weak hand to be set as trump.

B-By letting 2♥ doubled, you know you will be playing 2♥ doubled. 2♠ will likely also be doubled, but you can't know unless you bid it. Both suits are in front of the trump stack.

C-You have decent intermediates of ♠ suit that pd may not have in ♥ suit.

[Winstonm]

Thanks all, I didn't know I would be able to bid 2S natural there. I'm not convinced in this particular situation it would have worked, because partner probably wouldn't take it as natural - we didn't discuss, nothing similar ever came up, and so it was a very grey area. But good to know for my regular partnerships.

 

Other table ran to 2NT, followed by 3NT which was not doubled and went down only 1. I passed and went for -1100. 14 IMPs down the drain.

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQT863H5DQT4C982&w=SA9754HJ2D9CAKT53&n=SJ2HAQ763DAK7CQ76&e=SHKT984DJ86532CJ4&d=w&v=n&a=1S2HPPDPP2NP3CP3NPPP&p=HJHAH4H5SJD2S3S5S2D6SKSAH2H6H8C2D3D4D9DADKD5DTC3D7D8DQC5SQS4H3H9STS7H7HTC9CTCQC4C6CJ&c=8]399|300[/hv]

 

Your partner has a takeout double, not an overcall.

[sfi]

You must miss an awful lot of vulnerable games if you pass with this 16 count.

 

First choice 2S, second choice take out double. Pass is not a consideration.

 

(Presuming you mean 2H rather than 2S ...)

 

I have to admit that I have much more sympathy with a pass than with 2H. I would double, but this isn't such a great hand that I want to get too adventurous.

 

Looking at the very small sample here, there appears to be a direct correlation between bidding 2H on this hand and 2S on the original one. Not all that surprising really.

[MrAce]

For those who are debating over the chosen action (2♥) of North player....

 

https://bridgewinner...=658287#c658287

[Tramticket]

For those who are debating over the chosen action (2♥) of North player....

 

https://bridgewinner...=658287#c658287

 

thanks Timo, interesting.

 

(Presuming you mean 2H rather than 2S ...)

 

Yes … Oops

 

I can see arguments in favour of double or 2♥, but pass seems way too conservative. It may seem risky to bid 2♥ on this five-card suit, but risks work both ways and passing seems like a far greater risk to me. The question is how best to act. Yes, I would also like to have a six-card suit for a two-over-one overcall but I'm not always dealt one and it will be very difficult finding game in hearts on a 5-3 fit if we don't bid it now.

[msjennifer]

thanks Timo, interesting.

 

 

 

Yes … Oops

 

I can see arguments in favour of double or 2♥, but pass seems way too conservative. It may seem risky to bid 2♥ on this five-card suit, but risks work both ways and passing seems like a far greater risk to me. The question is how best to act. Yes, I would also like to have a six-card suit for a two-over-one overcall but I'm not always dealt one and it will be very difficult finding game in hearts on a 5-3 fit if we don't bid it now.

The North hand was revealed later.My argument about what North should /could have bid arises now.A simple overcall suggests a limited hand and a single suiter,usually 6 carded semi strong suit and at the two level a 7 loser hand.A 2H bid serves the purpose of semi preempt as also a clue for any sacrifice if necessary later.It also makes clear to partner that he should not expect a support in his suit.The North hand does not fall in this category.There is quite good support for diamonds and not a bad support for clubs .There is nothing to be very proud of the heart suit.A last intention of a simple overcall is lead direction.Here North can withstand any lead of interest which S may make.All these and the possession of 16 HCP and only 6 losers makes this hand a clear cut bid of Double and not 2H .Of course this is strictly my personal opinion .I think a double of a major suit bid as a TOD also promises an honour to four in the other major OR a single suiter strong hand.This hand has at least one of the qualifications if not more for a TOD.

[RD350LC]

Your partner has a takeout double, not an overcall.

I agree with this. With (relative) shortness in spades, support for all other suits, and at least an opening bid, this is a good takeout double.

There are times when an overcall would be better, but not this time.

[Tramticket]

For those who are debating over the chosen action (2♥) of North player....

 

https://bridgewinner...=658287#c658287

 

Currently 29 votes for 2♥ and 23 votes for double - but some big names have voted for double.

 

Interesting poll and thought provoking.