Getting to slam in responders suit

[thad3]

[hv=pc=n&w=saq9hkjt87432dq5c&e=s32ha6dakj642cqt4]266|100[/hv]

 

My occasional partner and I had a bid misunderstanding in a local game and got a bottom board. When E opened 1♦, I, as West, wanted to explore slam in ♥, but we ended up playing in a splinter suit. It makes 7♥. Playing 2/1, how would you explore for slam?

[nullve]

Playing 2/1, how would you explore for slam?

If East opens 1♦:

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1dp1hp2dp2sp2np3h(GF, 6+ H)p4d(cue)p4np5hp5np6dp7hppp]133|100[/hv]

If East opens 1N, maybe:

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1np2dp2hp5c(Exclusion RKCB)p5sp5np6dp7hppp]133|100[/hv]

[SelfGovern]

If East opens 1♦:

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1dp1hp2dp2sp2np3h(GF, 6+ H)p4d(cue)p4np5hp5np6dp7hppp]133|100[/hv]

If East opens 1N, maybe:

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1np2dp2hp5c(Exclusion RKCB)p5sp5np6dp7hppp]133|100[/hv]

 

I don't much like your key card auctions; you don't know that partner has the !HA and not the !CA.

Exclusion Blackwood is useful here if you can get to it, else opener should be the person asking, whereupon West can show his aces and a club void.

 

Also -- does 6!D show the !DK, or just "a king"? This too is important for 7!H.

[sfi]

I don't much like your key card auctions; you don't know that partner has the !HA and not the !CA.

 

The 4D cue clears up that particular mystery and makes key card safe.

[rmnka447]

I don't much like your key card auctions; you don't know that partner has the !HA and not the !CA.

Exclusion Blackwood is useful here if you can get to it, else opener should be the person asking, whereupon West can show his aces and a club void.

 

Also -- does 6!D show the !DK, or just "a king"? This too is important for 7!H.

 

I think nullve's auction depends on an inference that holding both ♣ A and ♦ A opener would bid 4 ♣ rather than 4 ♦ as a cue.

 

I have a slightly different take on nullve's auction. I'm having difficulty seeing that 4 ♦ in this case is a cue and not something like ♠ Kx ♥ x ♦ AKJ10xxx ♣ Q10x.

 

But I think nullve's headed generally in the right direction. After

 

--- - 1 ♦

1 ♥ - 2 ♦

 

the problem is how to show a strong hand with ♥. Any number of ♥ pretty much takes slam out of the picture -- 2 ♥ - signoff -- 3 ♥ - most play this as invitational with 6+ ♥ -- 4 ♥ would be to play for most and not forward going. So you're left with a "hasty' ♠ temporizing bid that forces opener. Now after

 

2 ♠ - 2 NT

3 ♥

 

3 ♥ is a GF with 6+ ♥, presumably 4 ♠, and is still unlimited. Opener's 2 NT rebid pretty much denies 3 ♥ and show some sort of holding in ♣ with a stopper. Also, note that 4 ♣ would be a cue agreeing ♥ because it can't be a true suit at this point in the auction.

 

Where I'd differ from nullve is that I'd think opener should now confirm the heart fit, hence,

 

2 ♠ - 2 NT

3 ♥ - 4 ♥

4 ♠

 

now responder is showing slam interest and showing a ♠ control. At this level, the ♠ control is likely the A. Opener should realize at this point that either responder has a huge hand with long ♥ headed by the QJ or must be holding ♥ A otherwise it's hard to see that responder could visualize any slam. Opener can now either use RKCB or cue. I'd favor making a cue of 5 ♦ (which still denies a ♣ control).

 

...

4 ♠ - 5 ♦

6 ♥

 

with no ♣ controls and opener cooperating at the 5 level I think responder should bid 6 ♥. 7 ♥ seems a bridge too far for me.

[Cyberyeti]

We play a relay after partner rebids his minor which makes it a lot easier, also I'd be happy to reach 7♦ which presumably also makes.

 

1♦-1♥

2♦-2♥(completely artificial relay)

3N(max, no second suit)-5♣(exclusion, diamonds agreed)

5♦(0/3)-7♦

 

We couldn't diagnose that E didn't have the 3163 version of the same hand where 7♦ is better.

[apollo1201]

but we ended up playing in a splinter suit

At least it is 1 down less than had you played in your exclusion BW🤣

 

More seriously, I really like the suggested auctions by the former posters.

[igt3]

How do you guys play 1m-2M? I prefer playing it game forcing with a good (at least 2 top honours) 6+suit. Follow-ups are to be agreed of course, but finding the slam wouldn´t be a problem I think.

[Cyberyeti]

How do you guys play 1m-2M? I prefer playing it game forcing with a good (at least 2 top honours) 6+suit. Follow-ups are to be agreed of course, but finding the slam wouldn´t be a problem I think.

You don't have 2 of the top 3.

 

I could have used a SJS after which it's fairly trivial, although you can't always be sure of being in the right grand.

[apollo1201]

You don't have 2 of the top 3.

 

I could have used a SJS after which it's fairly trivial.

The poll on’preferred 1m-2H sequence (dunno how to post links sorry) showed that it has become a minority. True enough, the SJS requirements (16 or 17+, strong suit or support) are so rare (when I used to play them, I think I tricked to use them) that most frequent uses exist and are used (fits on a M-opening, jump fits, some kind of Flannery or reverse or weak-2 above 1m...).

Nevertheless I am relieved to see that staring 1D-1H there are still ways to get to 6

[Cyberyeti]

The poll on’preferred 1m-2H sequence (dunno how to post links sorry) showed that it has become a minority. True enough, the SJS requirements (16 or 17+, strong suit or support) are so rare (when I used to play them, I think I tricked to use them) that most frequent uses exist and are used (fits on a M-opening, jump fits, some kind of Flannery or reverse or weak-2 above 1m...).

Nevertheless I am relieved to see that staring 1D-1H there are still ways to get to 6

 

As I said in that thread, I play either the one suited rock crusher OR GF or better HHxxx in my suit, Hxxx in opener's suit (H=AKQ) type, assumed to be the fit type unless you rebid your suit or bid NT.

[apollo1201]

As I said in that thread, I play either the one suited rock crusher OR GF or better HHxxx in my suit, Hxxx in opener's suit (H=AKQ) type, assumed to be the fit type unless you rebid your suit or bid NT.

 

That was the « only disclosed to me » twist I did when I played them. Quite easy since you can clarify at your 2nd bid. Probably a good use of that bid anyway and fairly frequent.

 

But partner (old-school, I was 20-sth, she was 60-sth) didn’t want to bend, which is partially why I no longer play them as such LOL.

[Caitlynne]

Dependent upon your partnerships specific agreements and understandings, many paths to 7H seem possible.

 

Here is one:

 

West - East

-- 1D

1H 2D

2S 3H

3S 4D

5C 5D

7H Pass

 

Here is another:

-- 1D

2H 3D

3H 4H

4S 5D

6C 6D

7H Pass

 

In the first of these two, the 2S rebid is safe since East has denied 4 card length in spades (by failing to rebid 1S).

 

In the second where a Soloway Style strong jump shift is used (unclearly since the suit is missing two top honors so, despite being 8 cards long, it does not meet the definition of "nearly solid"), the auction requires a bit of aggression (with the 4S cue bid) to get there.

 

Either way, being able to arrive at 7H without too much angst seems like a good goal for any partnership.

[nekthen]

We play a relay after partner rebids his minor which makes it a lot easier, also I'd be happy to reach 7♦ which presumably also makes.

 

1♦-1♥

2♦-2♥(completely artificial relay)

3N(max, no second suit)-5♣(exclusion, diamonds agreed)

5♦(0/3)-7♦

 

We couldn't diagnose that E didn't have the 3163 version of the same hand where 7♦ is better.

 

Has this method got a write up anywhere?

[eagles123]

I would open 1N from there trans exclusion blah blah

[Cyberyeti]

Has this method got a write up anywhere?

 

The concept is from Tim Bourke (and known as a Bourke relay I think), but we home hashed it a bit, I think the original idea was to use the lowest new suit as a relay so 2♠ would be the relay, but we just use the next suit up regardless.

[Lovera]

Initally you have to start for little slam. After 1♦-1♥, 2♦-3♥(=14/+, solid 6th/+ suit, forcing), 4♦(=cue agree heart)-4♠(=cue), 4NT(=RKB)-5NT(=2keys w/ Q+ void), 6♦(=ask)-6♠(=yes Q+Ace in spade, void in club suit), 7♥.(Lovera)

[rmnka447]

...

4 ♠ - 5 ♦

6 ♥

 

with no ♣ controls and opener cooperating at the 5 level I think responder should bid 6 ♥. 7 ♥ seems a bridge too far for me.

 

Rethinking my prior post slightly, responder can try for 7 ♥ by cue bidding 6 ♣. Since it forces to 6 ♥, it shows some interest in 7 ♥. Opener holding ♥ A should have one of those "Aha, I know what's being looked for" moments and bid 7 ♥. If opener holds instead ♥ Qx, I think 6 ♥ is opener's bid.

[thad3]

Thanks, all, for the helpful comments. I am leaning towards adopting the approach suggested by rmnka447, as it is more compatible with our existing understandings.

 

Here was the full layout:

[hv=pc=n&s=skj63hq95d9ckj975&w=saq9hkjt87432dq5c&n=st875hdt873ca8632&e=s42ha6dakj642cqt4]399|300[/hv]

 

Double dummy EW makes 7♥ or 10 ♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Thanks, all, for the helpful comments. I am leaning towards adopting the approach suggested by rmnka447, as it is more compatible with our existing understandings.

 

Here was the full layout:

[hv=pc=n&s=skj63hq95d9ckj975&w=saq9hkjt87432dq5c&n=st875hdt873ca8632&e=s42ha6dakj642cqt4]399|300[/hv]

 

Double dummy EW makes 7♥ or 10 ♦.

 

N has a dilemma, if he lightners 7♦ for the heart ruff, it gets pulled to 7♥, whereas a club lead also beats 7♦.

[pescetom]

The concept is from Tim Bourke (and known as a Bourke relay I think), but we home hashed it a bit, I think the original idea was to use the lowest new suit as a relay so 2♠ would be the relay, but we just use the next suit up regardless.

 

I looked it up and yes, the original idea was to use the cheapest available new suit as relay.

There isn't much agreement about whether the relay should force to game or for one round or to 4m.

What would the various replies (up to and including your 3NT) mean in your version?