Agressive bidding sometimes pays?

[oldem]

The board was played at 14 tables: at 13 tables, all EW pairs "routinely" landed at 3NT by W, making an extra trick for a score of 630 points; the only difference was at our table with N playing 3♥, non doubled, for a score of -100 points. Note that even being doubled for a score of -300, we still got the top board.

[Tramticket]

Maybe you should supply the hand if you want comments? :)

[NickRW]

Well done, but 1 result proves nothing. You may have found more constructive comment if you'd posted the hands - we might have been able to comment on whether the 3♥ was well judged or lucky, also whether the opps should have bid or doubled.

[Cyberyeti]

Without seeing the hands, we can't tell if you did anything unusual or the opponents merely messed up.

 

The funniest examples of this I have come from the rather unusual weak 2s my partner and I play (which in 1st and 3rd can be a 0 count and a 4 card suit)

 

After we agreed to play these, the first one I picked up was something like Jxxx, xxx, xx, Jxxx so I opened 2♠, next hand bids 3♦ and partner makes a penalty double. Turns out he had a 2N opener with ♦AQ108 and this was 1400.

 

The second one was part of a minor national final, 48 board match that was settled by 2 boards where the same side played in spades at both tables. One the spades were 60/43 between the 2 sides and opps dialed 800 at both tables. The other I opened 2♠ with Jxxxx and pretty much out -P-P giving 4th seat an unenviable decision with a 13 count and ♠AQ10xxx. He passed, collected 250, team mates took the same 10 tricks in 4♠ for 620.

[el mister]

It's certainly easy to see when aggressive bidding works, because it's crystal clear when a pre-empt or pressure bid has done the job for your side. It's easy to forget when it doesn't work, mind!

 

Like anything in bridge there's a time and a place and the good players can make that judgement. Must say the stronger pairs I see who post 60% week in week out are not characterised by aggressive bidding - they're dour and measured in their bidding if anything. It seems like never doing anything stupid is worth more than the occasional piece of sticking your neck out brilliance.

[FelicityR]

And sometimes aggressive bidding drops you right in the poo, pardon my language, too.

[Cyberyeti]

And sometimes aggressive bidding drops you right in the poo, pardon my language, too.

 

It can, but it has the same perception problem, in the eyes of the people who bid conservatively, they remember when it didn't work to be aggressive, but don't notice the missed opportunities to get into an auction or get the right lead.

 

The other thing is to realise where/how it works. Our weak 2s tend to pick up not mainly when partner raises and we compete, but when opponents basically have one bid to enter the auction and end up in the wrong spot.

[johnu]

Maybe you should supply the hand if you want comments? :)

 

We don't need no stinking hands :P

[hrothgar]

The board was played at 14 tables: at 13 tables, all EW pairs "routinely" landed at 3NT by W, making an extra trick for a score of 630 points; the only difference was at our table with N playing 3♥, non doubled, for a score of -100 points. Note that even being doubled for a score of -300, we still got the top board.

 

Anecdote is the singular of data

[Winstonm]

Anecdote is the singular of data

 

I thought it was anecdum. B-)

[steve2005]

I would agree that being aggressive pays off in the long turn.

People have figured out to be aggressive over 1C strong openings.

Not everyone has figured that artificial strong 2C bids are vulnerable. You just have to be a little more cautious.

After artificial 1C or 2C it is often hard to know to stop and double opps or bid your contract. Often you only get one chance.

[ggwhiz]

The whole conversation is meaningless without context on situation and partnership.

 

If I raised cyberyetis 4-card possible 0 pt weak 2's aggressively how would I do?

 

I played with a Marty Bergen wannabe back in the day, notorious for his weak 2's and made him promise to have a 6-card suit, ONLY in 2nd chair and he could still have his zero count.

 

A few hands in it went p - 2♥ (by him) - p - p - dbl float. They drew trumps in 5 rounds, knocked out my side ace and ran that suit when they got in with the last trump.

 

Me: You PROMISED to have a 6-card suit in 2nd chair!

Him: (hurt look) I DID! Clubs.

 

That partnership lasted 1 session

[oldem]

The board was played at 14 tables: at 13 tables, all EW pairs "routinely" landed at 3NT by W, making an extra trick for a score of 630 points; the only difference was at our table with N playing 3♥, non doubled, for a score of -100 points. Note that even being doubled for a score of -300, we still got the top board.

Sorry for the mistake of not posting the board diagram.

[hv=pc=n&s=skj3hjt943dq8c874&w=sqthkq8dt9762cak3&n=sa864h7652dacj962&e=s9752hadkj543cqt5&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1dp1sd1n2h3d3hppp]399|300[/hv]

[hrothgar]

Sorry for the mistake of not posting the board diagram.

[hv=pc=n&s=skj3hjt943dq8c874&w=sqthkq8dt9762cak3&n=sa864h7652dacj962&e=s9752hadkj543cqt5&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1dp1sd1n2h3d3hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Is there a point to posting boards that score well because you're playing against weak opposition?

 

3!H doubles should be down 3 for -500.

Still a good board for you, but move the deuce of clubs to diamonds, and your top is now a clear bottom...

[FelicityR]

2♥ by North is not aggressive, just plain ludicrous.

[ggwhiz]

2♥ by North is not aggressive, just plain ludicrous.

 

Double AND 3♥ by south (either and both) are much worse.

 

Get thee to gamblers anonymous tout suite. Does south play for money?

[msjennifer]

I have come across the most singular aggressive bidding.My partner opened a weak 2 S RHO doubled I was looking at S- Axxxxxx and raised to 5S. Opponents reached a contract of SEVEN clubs all pass.I Led a passive trump lead.RHO on seeing the dummy murmured something unprintable.They were missing the ACE of CLUBs.My partner showed out on the second round of Clubs.I did not have the ace of Clubs.The silly contract was made. My partner had revoked as he had the club Ace arranged thinking it to be Spade Ace. The director was called and he awarded the contract .7 Clubs made missing the trump Ace!

 

The take out double may not be to everyone's liking.However his 3H bid is the worst bid

[ahydra]

2♥ by North is not aggressive, just plain ludicrous.

 

I don't have any problem with 2♥, but you have to admit that TOX by South is just... vomit-inducing. West should have whacked 3♥.

 

ahydra

[oldem]

2♥ by North is not aggressive, just plain ludicrous.

The aggressiveness was meant to belong to South for his "double". He knew that East's response of 1NT showed limited strength; he expected his side could have had up to 17~18 HCPs; and that his holding of ♠KJ3 behind the ♠ bidder could be valuable. He could have bidden 2♥ himself but this was too misleading. Therefore, he just "doubled" and waited for the best.

[PhilG007]

The aggressiveness was meant to belong to South for his "double". He knew that East's response of 1NT showed limited strength; he expected his side could have had up to 17~18 HCPs; and that his holding of ♠KJ3 behind the ♠ bidder could be valuable. He could have bidden 2♥ himself but this was too misleading. Therefore, he just "doubled" and waited for the best.

 

Well done to South for his courageous "double" He got away with it THIS time(!)http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif I've found that there are players on here

who often confuse bridge with poker. They just can't resist playing with fire

[RD350LC]

Is there a point to posting boards that score well because you're playing against weak opposition?

 

3!H doubles should be down 3 for -500.

Still a good board for you, but move the deuce of clubs to diamonds, and your top is now a clear bottom...

I agree with what he is saying. I would bid with the south hand-but only after both opponents have limited their hands. In this case, south was playing with fire, and deserved to get burnt.

He was very lucky on this hand.

So, I would not have bid at the time south did.

[steve2005]

2♥ by North is not aggressive, just plain ludicrous.

2H isn't ludicrous it's partner's double that is ludicrous.

South should have an unbalanced hand not 5332 even if 5H.

South's 2H is palatable opposite a hand with ruffs.

 

 

[neilkaz]

2♥ by North is not aggressive, just plain ludicrous.

 

I think you failed to see S's takeout X. Opposite a PD who'd have more for a passed hand T/O X 2♥ is automatic, IMHO.

[nekthen]

13 out 14 bid a 22 point 3N contract?

I don’t believe it!

Deserves to lose 4 spade tricks and the A♦!

-300 does not look so clever against -150

[neilkaz]

13 out 14 bid a 22 point 3N contract?

I don’t believe it!

Deserves to lose 4 spade tricks and the A♦!

-300 does not look so clever against -150

 

14+10=24 HCP although even then I'd expect in a typical club game that more would miss 3NT.