ATB for missed 5C

[ahydra]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk54hadq83caqj964&n=s82h72dkt652ck875&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=pp1sd2s3dp4dppp]266|200[/hv]

 

IMPs, opps are vul

 

Suspect most would not class the South hand as too good for a 2C overcall, but that's less of a concern than the rest of the auction. Is North's 3D too aggressive? Or should South still bid 4C on the way to 4D?

 

ahydra

[mr1303_2]

Actually I think double is a terrible call. You are nowhere near too strong for an overcall - the double then bid sequence should be for hands that are worried about missing game - if it goes 1S 2C all pass you aren't missing anything. Especially with a singleton heart.

 

Indeed I initially thought this was an assign the blame problem for after a 2C overcall and I wrote out a big long answer for that.

 

North might make a responsive double rather than bid 3D, but 3D isn't unreasonable.

[neilkaz]

Start with 2♣ then PD raises to 3 in comp with 2 kings and 4 trumps and then maybe you get there.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I dont like the 4D bid, ..., 3D does not promise a 5+ suit,

unless with 44 in the minors you go via a responsive, I would need

to think this over.

I would instead bid 3NT, ..., 3D showed some live, I have

a stopper, -1, next board.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[apollo1201]

95% S for the X (if opening was 1H, the bid would be a little better although 2C followed by a TOX at some later stage would show the hand better)

5% for N who could have used a X to show interest in the minors (although with a 5-cd suit it is ok as partner virtually promised to have at least 3 cd support)

In all cases, 5 is not laydown, we are just playing in an inferior strain (hoping they don’t get their C ruff)

[Cyberyeti]

5♣ is a terrible contract, you might not even make 4. Too much resulting E could easily have had QJ10xx, KQxx, AJ9, x or similar

[gszes]

while I do not share cyberyeti's pessimism about 5c being a poor contract I do believe focusing on 3d and 4d is leading the discussion in the wrong direction. The x (vs 2c) has created a lot of problems here and these problems are mild compared to those

that might have been created if partner was bidding hearts vs diamonds. Doubling with shortness in the other major is asking for trouble.

 

Is 3d too much? At MP I would consider 3d automatic where the fights for part scores is ravenous. At IMPS I do not think it is that clear since there is nowhere near enough power for 3n or 5m unless partner can bid over 2s. I would opt for pass

and await developments but I am a bigggggggggggggggggggggggg chicken and would not have too much heartache over my partner bidding 3d. I must admit to having a monstrous dislike of 4d however and vastly prefer to hear 3s which should be asking for a partial spade stop (since surely 2n would have been preferred over 3d). Once partner cannot accept 3n they now surprise us with 4c and I would be severly tempted (at imps anyway) to try for 5c since the opps rate to have 9+ hearts when p has made no attempt too bid them and partner's values may all too easily help provide us with 11 tricks.

[eagles123]

I agree u don’t want to be in it necessarily but souths bidding is beyond terrible

 

Double is just bizarre wtf is wrong with bidding clubs, and then 4d lol why!!

[MrAce]

while I do not share cyberyeti's pessimism about 5c being a poor contract .......

 

Cyber has a point. Game is definitely not worth of ATB for not finding it.

Having said that, South's choice of bids are terrible as others stated.

[rmnka447]

I see no problem with the 3 ♦ bid in this auction. Opponents have shown a fit and advancer has a feature to show and reason to believe a fit exists because the opponents have one.

 

If you evaluate the South hand as worth a "strong" overcall, then maybe you should keep faith with that evaluation and just bid 4 ♣ over 3 ♦. As others have said, there's no absolute guarantee that North has 5 ♦, but has shown towards the top end of at least a minimum reply (decent 6-8). If North rebids 4 ♦, it must show 5+ ♦ and no good ♣ fit.

 

If you don't think the South hand quite meets the values for a double followed by a suit bid, then you should just make a 2 ♣ overcall. Part of that consideration may be thinking about possible rebids especially since any competitive bidding to the 3 level push South to 4 ♣ to show the ♣ suit.

 

5 of a minor isn't a gilt edged contract. It depends on the ♠ A being onside AND being able to hold ♦ losers to one trick.

[ahydra]

Thanks all, makes sense. For some reason it seems people over here in NZ really don't know standard bidding :/, and most think any old 16 HCP hand is good enough for double-then-bid. I tried to convince partner that rmnka447's approach was correct - she should rebid 4C - but she was like "why would I not show my fit, and you should pass because you need 8 HCPs to bid 3D". Well, I wanted to play 3D, and you have ♣AQJ9xx and it's equal-level-correctable back to diamonds... never mind. :)

 

East had actually opened with 10 HCPs - ♠QJ10xx ♥KQJxx ♦Jx ♣x - so I misguessed everything in 4D and went off. (I started by thinking: they have 10 hearts so I guess East is 5-5 majors, he didn't lead a singleton club so he has a singleton diamond, and so I finessed the ♦10 immediately.) But provided she does better with the diamonds, South can make 5C, as East can never get in to lead a spade.

 

In any case, this all would have been fine if team-mates had at some point mentioned their hearts...

 

ahydra