Claiming - a personal experience

[Tramticket]

Some interesting discussion on this site about contesting claims. How would you feel in this scenario from a recent club game with a strong field?:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skq6ht2dak7652cjt&w=s53hq854djt8ca876&n=sa9742hkd3ckq9432&e=sjt8haj9763dq94c5&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=2h3d3h3sp4sppp&p=c5ctcac4h4hkhah2h3hthqs2s4s8sqs3sks5s7sts6h5sa]399|300[/hv]

 

Pairs

Table result: 4♠ + 1

 

You are North, declarer in 4♠ on the lead of the 5♣. The early play is:

T1: 5♣, T♣, A♣, 4♣

T2: 4♥, K♥, A♥, 2♥

T3: 3♥, T♥, Q♥, 2♠

T4-6: Trumps drawn, finishing in hand (east pitching a heart).

 

At this point I showed my hand and stated: "Clubs are all now running, ace of diamonds and the trump".

 

West responded with: "We have plenty of time. Would you humour me by playing on?". West was not a beginner. In fact he is a Premier Grand Master, who has represented his country and is more than capable of counting tricks.

 

Fortunately East interjected with "He has made his claim. There is no provision to play on".

 

What was west doing with his request to play on?

[pran]

Some interesting discussion on this site about contesting claims. How would you feel in this scenario from a recent club game with a strong field?:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skq6ht2dak7652cjt&w=s53hq854djt8ca876&n=sa9742hkd3ckq9432&e=sjt8haj9763dq94c5&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=2h3d3h3sp4sppp&p=c5ctcac4h4hkhah2h3hthqs2s4s8sqs3sks5s7sts6h5sa]399|300[/hv]

 

Pairs

Table result: 4♠ + 1

 

You are North, declarer in 4♠ on the lead of the 5♣. The early play is:

T1: 5♣, T♣, A♣, 4♣

T2: 4♥, K♥, A♥, 2♥

T3: 3♥, T♥, Q♥, 2♠

T4-6: Trumps drawn, finishing in hand (east pitching a heart).

 

At this point I showed my hand and stated: "Clubs are all now running, ace of diamonds and the trump".

 

West responded with: "We have plenty of time. Would you humour me by playing on?". West was not a beginner. In fact he is a Premier Grand Master, who has represented his country and is more than capable of counting tricks.

 

Fortunately East interjected with "He has made his claim. There is no provision to play on".

 

What was west doing with his request to play on?

Maybe he would like to try out

D. Suspension of Play

After any claim or concession, play is suspended.

1. If the claim or concession is agreed, Law 69 applies.

2. If it is doubted by any player (dummy included); either

(a) the Director may immediately be summoned and no action should be taken pending his arrival, Law 70 applies; or

(b) upon the request of the non-claiming or non-conceding side, play may continue subject to the following:

(i) all four players must concur; otherwise the Director is summoned, who then proceeds as in (a) above.

(ii) the prior claim or concession is void and not subject to adjudication. Laws 16 and 50 do not apply, and the score subsequently obtained shall stand.

(My emphasize, and I have a feeling that East was not up to date on the laws?) :rolleyes:

[gordontd]

As Sven has pointed out, there is now a provision to play on, but only if all four players agree to it. As to what West was up to, why not ask him what his doubt was?

[StevenG]

Just play it out extremely slowly. If West complains, say there's obviously some problem you haven't spotted, so you're being very careful.

[barmar]

West sees that declarer needs to unblock clubs and then ruff a diamond to dummy to pick up all the tricks. But "clubs are all running" implies he's going to play clubs from the top, in which case he has to lose a club and doesn't make the overtrick.

 

They should have just called the TD, and I think he should rule that the stated line did not include unblocking. Contesting the claim and then asking to play on is likely to give declarer the hint he needs to get it right.

 

Maybe West thought he was being "actively ethical" by giving declarer the opportunity to notice the flaw in his claim statement. Some players don't like to win on legal technicalities, especially in less serious events like club games.

[pescetom]

West sees that declarer needs to unblock clubs and then ruff a diamond to dummy to pick up all the tricks. But "clubs are all running" implies he's going to play clubs from the top, in which case he has to lose a club and doesn't make the overtrick.

 

They should have just called the TD, and I think he should rule that the stated line did not include unblocking. Contesting the claim and then asking to play on is likely to give declarer the hint he needs to get it right.

 

Maybe West thought he was being "actively ethical" by giving declarer the opportunity to notice the flaw in his claim statement. Some players don't like to win on legal technicalities, especially in less serious events like club games.

Put me down for a player who doesn't like to win on legal technicalities, as in this case where I would expect that opponent would play correctly even if his claim is poorly formulated.

Perhaps the laws leave unneccesary room for contention and embarassment here: it would be simple to say that declarer must claim a specific number of tricks (no explanation required) and that if an opponent challenges that claim (no explanation required or permitted) then the declarer must play the remaining tricks from his faced hand.

[johnu]

West sees that declarer needs to unblock clubs and then ruff a diamond to dummy to pick up all the tricks. But "clubs are all running" implies he's going to play clubs from the top, in which case he has to lose a club and doesn't make the overtrick.

 

You misread the remaining cards. Declarer has ♣KQ9xx left, and West has ♣876 left. Clubs are running if played from the top.

[blackshoe]

West is certainly permitted to request that declarer play on. East is certainly permitted to object, even if his objection is based on a misunderstanding of the law. However, once East has objected, playing on is no longer an option. The director must be called. When he arrives he applies law 70.

 

North's hand, at the point of the claim, is

[hv=pc=n&n=s9hd3ckq943]133|100[/hv]

The lead is in North. West has three clubs, but none are higher than North's top 3. North's line of play statement was "Clubs are all now running, ace of diamonds and the trump." This line is valid, the ♣K will crash the J, so the claim is good. Score it up, you're late. :D

[barmar]

You misread the remaining cards. Declarer has ♣KQ9xx left, and West has ♣876 left. Clubs are running if played from the top.

Oops, I somehow had the 8 and 9 swapped in my mind.

 

So now I really don't understand West, unless he made the same mistake.