Unusual NT

[dickiegera]

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I chose to bid 1NT [unusual]

Partner believes I should have bid 1♠

We let them play contract in 2 [making].

 

Partner held

 

[hv=pc=n&w=saj2hk43da873cj65]133|100[/hv]

 

2♠ would have made.

 

Opinions please. Thank you

[ggwhiz]

Was 1nt alerted?

 

If not you just avoided an unfavorable ruling.

 

If yes, 1♠ has the advantage of setting the (likely) defense but I have a lot of sympathy for 1nt and might well bid 2♠ with the south hand, also a contribution to setting the defense as well as bumping them up a trick.

[dickiegera]

Was 1nt alerted?

 

If not you just avoided an unfavorable ruling.

 

If yes, 1♠ has the advantage of setting the (likely) defense but I have a lot of sympathy for 1nt and might well bid 2♠ with the south hand, also a contribution to setting the defense.

 

 

1NT was bid by a passed hand , cannot be natural.

Yes was alerted as the 2 unbid suits

[steve2005]

1NT was bid by a passed hand , cannot be natural.

Yes was alerted as the 2 unbid suits

In ACBL 1NT is not alertable here as a passed hand.

 

Anyways. if partner isn't bidding 2S over 1N I don't see how they will after 1S. 1N is reasonable.

 

 

[rmnka447]

The term I see used for the 1 NT bid on any auction like this is "sandwich NT" rather than unusual NT. In any case, it does show the other 2 suits but not as strong a hand as a double which would still be takeout. Most people who play this usually discuss this use of 1 NT before playing it. So, perhaps your partner was just confused when you made the bid.

 

If partner recognized you made a bid showing the 2 unbid suits, then why is partner passing here? Partner has an opening bid behind opening bidder and should know you have at least an 8 card ♠ fit and likely an 8+ card in ♣ fit as well. Partner's hand being behind opener make the high cards in it a bit more valuable as they are more likely to be well placed. With everyone but partner bidding, it's highly likely that the points are distributed fairly evenly between the two sides.

 

So at duplicate, it's imperative that partner use the high ground of the ♠ suit to compete further. Fighting for part scores is an essential part of being successful at all forms of duplicate although you might rein things in a tad when vulnerable. You'll either get to a good part score OR possibly push the opponents 1 level higher where you might be able to defeat them.

 

Personally, I'd just bid 1 ♠ with your hand rather than 1 NT. As other suggested, it helps point to your defensive values. But the main problem for me is showing a ratty 5 card ♣ headed by the 10. If partner preferences to ♣, it can lead to some terrible results from time to time when things don't break or lie right. But pay your money, take your choice.

[gszes]

There is zero reason to limit your hand description to only spades when the 1n bids offers partner 2 possible paths to success. A 1s overcall might forever bury the club suit for almost no practical reason whatsoever. 1n describes your hand perfectly and it is not your fault if your partner could not force themselves to compete to 2s.

[case_no_6]

As far as I can see you bid two suits and partner chose not to raise your 5 card spade suit to the 2 level. Why would he have raised your spade suit to the 2 level had you bid 1S instead of 1NT?

 

Seems to me that partner is blaming you for his mistake.

[PhilG007]

[hv=pc=n&e=skq985ht2d3ct9832&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1dp1h]133|200[/hv]

 

I chose to bid 1NT [unusual]

Partner believes I should have bid 1♠

We let them play contract in 2 [making].

 

Partner held

 

[hv=pc=n&w=saj2hk43da873cj65]133|100[/hv]

 

2♠ would have made.

 

Opinions please. Thank you

 

I would double for takeout which sends the same message i.e. at least 5-5 in the black suits

and asking for preference

[miamijd]

Seems like an obvious 1NT call to me. Let's get both black suits into play.

 

Double is wrong, because it tends to deny five spades. A one spade overcall is OK, but what if partner has 2 spades and 4 clubs? Don't we want to compete to 3C?

 

I don't understand your partner's criticism or his failure to bid 2S. Maybe he didn't understand your bid?

 

Cheers,

mike

[ggwhiz]

In ACBL 1NT is not alertable here as a passed hand.

 

You are correct as per the ACBL Alert Chart but (surprise!) my convention card indicates otherwise.

[MrAce]

This is not usually called "unusual NT" This is "sandwich NT"

The wording "unusual NT" deny ♠ suit in general.

For example I play this 1 NT = minors, despite the 1♦ opening, particularly if it showed 2+ or 3+ ♦.

[dsLawsd]

It would help to know the Partnership understanding and style.

I might bid 1 spade- but I personally think I would PASS! And consider what action to try later as I only have 1 trick and cannot think bidding now accomplishes much. In fact bidding 2 spades now might be a winner- forcing the opponents to make the last guess.

 

I sure appreciate seeing these thought provoking hands.

(and if I could on this one I would ask Kit Woolsey what he would recommend)

[sfi]

Partner has an opening bid behind opening bidder and should know you have at least an 8 card ♠ fit and likely an 8+ card in ♣ fit as well.

 

The 8-card spade fit is far from guaranteed, and the fit is much more likely to be in clubs than spades. 4-5 in the blacks is a common shape for 1NT here, and partner is clearly expecting this (4-4 hands tend to double, 5-4 hands tend to bid 1S, so 1NT is likely to be 4-5 or 5-5 with better clubs). My expectations are more in line with your partner's, although I would have expected partner to take some sort of competitive action over two of a red suit with this hand.

[MrAce]

The 8-card spade fit is far from guaranteed, and the fit is much more likely to be in clubs than spades. 4-5 in the blacks is a common shape for 1NT here, ....

 

I disagree, 4♠+5♣ is not even in the picture of 1 NT sandwich or unusual if you wanna call it, let alone being common shape. You double with this.

 

Why would anyone sane disables themselves from playing 1♠, particularly if we are going to get axed no matter what we play ?

[sfi]

Hence the disconnect among the partnership. Having the option to show five clubs can be valuable in competition, and it reduces the risk of forcing to the two level.

 

I admit I haven't come across people who play 1NT as showing five spades. That seems a poor use of the bid to me, but I'm not going to argue if it works for you.

[MrAce]

Hence the disconnect among the partnership. Having the option to show five clubs can be valuable in competition, and it reduces the risk of forcing to the two level.

 

I admit I haven't come across people who play 1NT as showing five spades. That seems a poor use of the bid to me, but I'm not going to argue if it works for you.

 

With 5♠+4♣ one must bid 1 ♠ imo.

With 4♠+5♣ X is clear.

If i played 1 NT showing black suits here, that would not be any less than 5-5 shape.

[miamijd]

Hence the disconnect among the partnership. Having the option to show five clubs can be valuable in competition, and it reduces the risk of forcing to the two level.

 

I admit I haven't come across people who play 1NT as showing five spades. That seems a poor use of the bid to me, but I'm not going to argue if it works for you.

 

So what would you have 1NT show as a passed hand? The only logical alternatives are (A) 5/5 or better in the two unbid suits or (B) 5/5+ in the minors. Against "standard" bidders, where 1D almost always shows 4, it would seem that (A) is the better choice. On the other hand, if the opponents played a strong club system, with an "all-purpose" 1D opener, then I would play 1NT = minors here.

 

Cheers,

mike

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I think 1S and 1NT are both reasonable, 1S showes where you live, the suit quality is a lot better

than the club suit, 1 NT showes both suits, and I also think it is a lot more distributional (55),

with 4 spades, going beyond 1S seems asking for numbers, and with 5 spades, 4 clubs, just bid the spades.

 

1NT caters for finding a cheap sacrifice against 4H, 1S is fighting for the part score, and a lead director,

if they happen to land in a NT contract.

 

For what's it worth: I would have gone with 1S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: The hand is also a reasonable 2S opening in first seat, that being said, a not yet mentioned alternative is

a 2S bid, although I prefer the 2S opening.

[cleveritis]

1N is a poor call. 1) lead, 2) you tell them you are 5-5 or so which could be worth a ton in the play (maybe several tricks), 1N far riskier... our job on this hand is to find a spade partscore or make a good lead - VERY unlikely that we buy the hand profitably in clubs.

[sfi]

So what would you have 1NT show as a passed hand?

 

1NT is likely to be 4-5 or 5-5 with better clubs.

[Tramticket]

So what would you have 1NT show as a passed hand?

 

1NT is likely to be 4-5 or 5-5 with better clubs.

 

You are coming into an auction with both opponents virtually unlimited holding sub-opening values. You are not going to want to do this without some compensating shape - I would suggest that 5-4 is the minimum shape requirement. You have two take-out bids available - double and 1NT as well the possibility of over-calling in one of your suits.

 

It seems reasonable to use double to show 5 clubs / 4 spades; 1NT to show at least 5-5 and to bid the spade suit with 5 spades / 4 clubs.

 

I agree that there are other auctions where 1NT will promise less than 5-5: Pass, (1♥), Pass, (Pass); 1NT would suggest the minors and I would not expect 5-5.

[Dinarius]

Your five count is worth one bid, and one bid only.

 

1NT describes it perfectly in that one bid. You pass everything thereafter - the ball is in partner’s court.

 

As I play, double would show more HCP, as well as those two suits, but not necessarily 5/5, or better.

 

If you bid 1♠️, you never get to bid again. I disagree with your partner.

 

D.