What’s he after.

[PhilKing]

I sign off in 6NT.

 

Standard spot. Partner is making a last train. He can count 12 tricks in 6NT opposite our heart queen (haha) and is looking for an extras heart or the spade queen, neither or which we have. We could accept with AKxxxxxx AKQxxxx or the spade queen.

[nige1]

I sign off in 6NT. Standard spot. Partner is making a last train. He can count 12 tricks in 6NT opposite our heart queen (haha) and is looking for an extras heart or the spade queen, neither or which we have. We could accept with AKxxxxxx AKQxxxx or the spade queen.

On reflection, PhilKing's argument seems reasonable.

[gszes]

READ THE NOTES THE OP PUT IN "4S is 0314".

Whale spit was that there the whole time??? If so I need to seriously consider taking up a remedial reading course. Sorry for interrupting this diatribe with my nonsense. Maybe I will work up the courage to look at this problem tomorrow and see

if I can make sense of the bidding once 4s is key card.

[cherdano]

I sign off in 6NT.

 

Standard spot. Partner is making a last train. He can count 12 tricks in 6NT opposite our heart queen (haha) and is looking for an extras heart or the spade queen, neither or which we have. We could accept with AKxxxxxx AKQxxxx or the spade queen.

That's all logical...but a likely hand for that would be something like AKxxx xx xxx KQx. I.e., a 2 or 7 hand in NT. (Diamond lead seems likely on this auction.)

 

Might as well bid 7H to get the grand bonus when hearts split, and to save 3-4 undertricks when they don't.

[nullve]

1♣-1♠; 2♥-2N; 3♥-4♣; 4♦-4♠; 5♣-5♦; 5N = ?

[PhilKing]

That's all logical...but a likely hand for that would be something like AKxxx xx xxx KQx. I.e., a 2 or 7 hand in NT. (Diamond lead seems likely on this auction.)

 

Might as well bid 7H to get the grand bonus when hearts split, and to save 3-4 undertricks when they don't.

 

Why can't he have the diamond queen?

[Phil]

On reflection, PhilKing's argument seems reasonable.

 

Same here and this was the point of the exercise.

[cherdano]

Why can't he have the diamond queen?

Of course he could but even then - 6NT wins when hearts don't split and diamond king is offside, and 7H wins when hearts split. Not as huge a loss in IMPs expectancy as playing 6N without Diamond queen.

[PhilKing]

Of course he could but even then - 6NT wins when hearts don't split and diamond king is offside, and 7H wins when hearts split. Not as huge a loss in IMPs expectancy as playing 6N without Diamond queen.

 

Anyway, I don't really buy the argument than partner has no diamond control (with no diamond ace and no heart honour, partner needed a cue from us). There are other hands where we just belong on 6NT. And 4♦ was not doubled, so we are not getting a diamond lead even close to all the time when that is the killer.

[nullve]

I'll be less cryptic this time.

 

Standard spot. Partner is making a last train. He can count 12 tricks in 6NT opposite our heart queen (haha) and is looking for an extras heart or the spade queen, neither or which we have.

Why bid 6♥ over 5♦ with a trump suit 1+ trick better than ♥AKQxxx? Because 5N isn't available?

[PhilKing]

I'll be less cryptic this time.

 

 

Why bid 6♥ over 5♦ with a trump suit 1+ trick better than ♥AKQxxx? Because 5N isn't available?

 

On reflection I think partner is looking for a doubleton spade, so that we can ruff out the spade for the 13th trick. But whatever he is after I don't have it. I don't want to be in a grand on 4-3 spades and a heart break. It's a sign off regardless.

 

Personally, I like the 6♥ bid (I think it should be defined as a punt with a seventh heart) and would bid 5NT with the heart queen no king.

[mikeh]

Hi to both Phils

 

I love this hand.

 

I like PhilK's idea of bidding 6N here, but disagree with his notion that partner is looking for a doubleton spade so as to play 7H, ruffing the spade good, unless we credit partner with both excellent visualization and huge respect for our visualization.

 

I think we can safely infer that he lacks the diamond K, since he waited for us to cue diamonds before using keycard.

 

The best I can give him, assuming he lacks a 6th spade (a safe bet given the 2N bid) is something like AKxxx Jx QJx KQx.

 

He might have the spade J but that adds only a modest amount to the chances in grand.

 

He is presumably going to play us for 2=6=2=3 or 2=6=3=2.

 

If we have the latter, xx AKQxxx Axx Ax, then grand is not very good, because we are often unable to establish spades and then get back to dummy to enjoy the last spade.

 

If we have xx AKQxxx Ax Axx, that problem disappears...we have an extra club entry.

 

Thus, if he is inviting the grand when we have a doubleton spade, we have to assume that he has visualized our likely hands and the likely play on those hands. He should only invite the grand if he trusts us to see his thinking and to realize that we need Ax Axx in the minors (or A Axxx).

 

I don't play with players who both think that deeply and reasonably think that I think that deeply :rolleyes: So I stick with my notion that he is looking for the Q of spades, to run the suit by power. Having said that, I entirely agree that 6N is the right call here. It may wrong side the contract, and may go down extra tricks when he lacks the diamond Queen, but we have an extra chance when he does hold that card, compared to 7♥.

[cherdano]

Personally, I like the 6♥ bid (I think it should be defined as a punt with a seventh heart) and would bid 5NT with the heart queen no king.

Interesting. I have always assumed 6H = HQ but nothing else, and 5N = HQ plus other feature I can't show below 6H otherwise (here probably SQ, or extra trump length).

[gszes]

AQJT9 xx KQx Kxx We are optimistic about slam as soon as partner opens 1c (16+) but there are so many questions that need to be answered and we begin the festivities with

 

1s positive response and GF in our short club system (I hope, where did I hide those system notes grrrr?)

2h well great there goes the 2 level and I cant bid 2s plus these kings might need protecting so I trot out

2n this accurately describes my distribution and stoppers but there is so much more we need to learn and opener bids

3h well of course there goes the 3 level and ANY hope I have of easily finding the spade K ---- unless

4c if opener cant bid 4d a grand is no longer possible so lets see what happens and if p does bid 4d we have a cute 4s key card we can use for extra safety

4d OK ok grand is still possible 5 minor suit tricks 4/5 spades both minors double stopped so lets look for the grand

4s 0314 RKC

5c 1 or 4 that is GREAT but our problems are not over if p has xx AKQxxx Axx Axx we can still only count 12 tricks unless we want to bid 7 banking on the spade finesse (ughh)

5d lets find out about the heart Q first

6h heart Q no extra stuff to report and presumably no extra length since 5n was available. Opener does NOT have the spade K. 6n is certainly viable 4s 3h 5 C/D

6s SURELY p will realize they have already denied something good in spades and this is only asking for extra heart length to bid a grand what happens next is the whole purpose of the exercise and I would end up bidding

6n no extra length and I hope I figured this out.

Kind of odd that I arrived at 6n with 4s = key card and 4s = cue bid (see my useless earlier interpretations if u need a good laugh).

[nige1]

Thank you, Phil, for a stimulating discussion. For us result-merchants, as the cards lay, do you make 7♥ or 7N, on normal play?

[Phil]

Thank you, Phil, for a stimulating discussion. For us result-merchants, as the cards lay, do you make 7♥ or 7N, on normal play?

 

YW Nigel. And hi back to MikeH.

 

PhilK / Cherdano: Pretty sure he would take 5N as hQ + dK. That makes 6D fairly worthless I suppose.

 

Partner (hint: his first and last name have the same initial) had an unexpected hand but I didn't see it as we were short on time. AKQxx and a stiff heart (I think).

 

Assuming this place dries out by Saturday, we are playing golf in the afternoon and I will ask again.