German Moscito Examples....

[inquiry]

Thanks to sdebois for providing this link to an english description for German Moscito (written by Peter Buchen et. al. 1993):

 

http://www.diku.dk/hjemmesider/studerende/...man-moscito.pdf

 

I am going to try to learn German Moscito. To aid in this attempt, I would like this thread to deal with the construction of a consistent version that most of the moscito trainers can agree with. The notes above are old (circa 1993), so by the end of this thread, I hope we will have updated them to include more recent innovations without going overboard with too much stuff that is not allowed in, say, the ACBL. But one quick change the trainers seem to agree on is to drop the SPECIFIC ASKING BIDS found in the German notes.

 

To get this mission off I will state that what I think should still be in for this BBO-forum version of german moscito and then start some questions so that the system can be shaped up a little. All of Sections 1-7 (pages 1.1-7.3) of the notes (with the possible exception of the Jump Break out... is there a better way for that, say immediate how many keycards outside this suit?) are in.

 

This gets us up to the 2H and higher bids, as well as the control asking bids and specific asking bids. What should these 2H+ bids show? In addition, clearly Control asking bid stays, and SAB is gone, being replace by denial cue bidding. I assume for the denial cue bids, the relay ask for you to bid suit in which you DONT have a control, up the line, in typical moscito fashion...the first step =your longest suit (or higher with equal), the second step is your second longest suit, etc.

 

So, say you have shown 5H-4S-3C-1D distribution and 4 controls. Partner now bids 4C as starting denial cue-bidding. A 4D bid would DENY a heart A or K, a 4H bid would promise a heart control (since 4D not bid) and deny a spade control, a 4NT bid would show controls in both long suits, but deniy one in clubs.

 

Question. Do you deny a control if holding both AK as in ultimate club?

 

I hope the people who actually play mosciot will help this thread grow into a useful resourse, please refer to sections of the German - notes circa 1993 that you specifically think need to be changed, so we can use those notes as a starting point.

 

Ben

[inquiry]

Since this is a thread about learning moscito, I thought I would post some of the hands I have experienced. These are not selected for any reason other than 1) Feedback from the trainers on what the auction really should be, and 2) demo to others considering trying moscito.

 

For my post, assume BBF-version of German moscito (link above to notes) as being developed in this thread. This means the right bid on these hands may change over time as this thread develops. .

IMPS, all vul

 

AKJ932

K4

74

KT8

 

Q

AJ865

A653

Q94

 

 

1H (4+H) 1S* (* will mean relay in this thread)

2C (D's) 2D*

2N 3C* (Luis points out in reply#5, that 2N is wrong,

3H 3NT the correct bid would have been 3D over 2D)

Pass

 

In moscito, the cheapest bid after partner opens, is often a relay (exceptions include passed hand responses and 1C-1D, and 1NT-2C). 1NT

 

1H carried three pieces of information. 1) 9-14 pts, 2) 4 plus hearts, and 3) importantly (need to alert), 3 or fewer spades.

 

1S* was a relay seeking additional info, it showed 12+Hcp and is at least game invitiational. Over 1S*, 1NT would have shown a balanced minimum, so 2C shows the higher second suit (in this case this has to be diamonds). 2D* was another relay, and opener know tells his exact distribution using what is know as the S-2 scheme. Using the S-2 Scheme, the responder to the relay request has to describe his holding in one of three ways…. longer lower suit (canape) by bidding 2H, equal suit length (by bidding 2S), longer higher suit (by bidding 2N or possibly higher). Here, hearts are longer AND his two side suits are not equal length (not 2-2 in the blacks or 1-1 in the blacks for instance), so he bids 2NT (with equal in the short suits and longer hearts, he would have bid 3C).

 

3C* is a further relay asking for opener for his short suit and/or specific distribution. Here, you know that hearts are longer than diamonds, and that the two black suits are not equal length (since 2NT instead of 3C). So opener shows his short suit. If it is clubs, he bids the first step. If it is spades, he shows his exact distribution starting with the second step. The most common distributions first. so 3H showed 5431 with still spade, the steps are 5431, 5431, 6421, 6430, 7420, 7510, 8410.

 

Here I bailed, in 3NT (which is always to play in moscito).

 

Did I do this right? People who know moscito are invited to include hands in this thread with some useful explaination to aid in learning this system and fine tuning the BBF version hopefully that will comeout at the a very long thread lasting months.

 

Ben

[hrothgar]

I am not convinced that German Moscito is the right way to go.

While the system may look simplier at first glance, there is a lot of hidden complexity that is not necessarily apparant to players unfamiliar with the system.

 

For example consider the response structure over the Strong Club opening bid. Modern MOSCITO uses 1D:positive, 1S Negative. German MOSCITO uses the old fashioned 1D = Negative, 1H+ = Positive. While the relay structure over modern MOSCITO requires slightly more memory load, most players don't understand how complex opener's rebid schedule can become following the auction 1C - 1D playing German MOSCITO.

 

Personally, I am not particularly fond of the structure of limited opening bids playing German MOSCITO. I think that you lose far too many opportunities to preempt. You also will wrong side a lot of contracts. However, I can live with it if there is a strong demand.

[luis]

Hi Ben,

 

Let's start with denial cuebidding. After controls are asked a non 3nt relay bid starts denial cuebbiding. Responder (relayee) then scans his suits in length order. If two suits have the same length or the precise length is unknown (7321 hands) then they are scanned in rank order (s-h-d-c).

 

The rules are:

 

First scan:

* Long suits (3+ cards)

- Stop if you have AK or if you don't have the Ace nor the K. Skip

if you have the A or the K.

* Short suits (2- cards)

- Stop if you have the A or K, skip if you have AK or nothing.

Second scan:

* Long suits

- Stop without the Q, skip with the Q

* Short suits

- Stop with the Q, skip without the Q

Third scan:

* Long suits

- Stop without the J, skip with the J

* Short suits

- Stop with the J skip without the J

 

So, say you have shown 5H-4S-3C-1D distribution and 4 controls. Partner now bids 4C as starting denial cue-bidding. A 4D bid would DENY a heart A or K, a 4H bid would promise a heart control (since 4D not bid) and deny a spade control, a 4NT bid would show controls in both long suits, but deniy one in clubs.

 

Yes but 4s is the bid that denies A or K in clubs, 4nt stops in the singleton diamond thus showing a singleton A or K of diamonds.

 

Question. Do you deny a control if holding both AK as in ultimate club?

 

Exactly.

 

Hope this helps.

[hrothgar]

I admit that I haven't looked at the German MOSCITO notes closely, however, I would be shocked if shape was resolved with a 3H. Symmetric relay systems strive to resolve the same shape hand with the same bid. For example, 5431 hands are (almost) always resloved with a 3D bid.

 

After 2NT, you know:

 

Short legged 2 suited

Heats longer than Diamonds

Spade shortage

 

If this is a 5431, there is only one possibility 1=5=4=3 shape

[luis]

1S* was a relay seeking additional info, it showed 12+Hcp and is at least game invitiational. Over 1S*, 1NT would have shown a balanced minimum, so 2C shows the higher second suit (in this case this has to be diamonds). 2D* was another relay, and opener know tells his exact distribution using what is know as the S-2 scheme. Using the S-2 Scheme, the responder to the relay request has to describe his holding in one of three ways…. longer lower suit (canape) by bidding 2H, equal suit length (by bidding 2S), longer higher suit (by bidding 2N or possibly higher). Here, hearts are longer AND his two side suits are not equal length (not 2-2 in the blacks or 1-1 in the blacks for instance), so he bids 2NT (with equal in the short suits and longer hearts, he would have bid 3C).

 

Ben,

Almost perfect :-)

But the S2 scheme handling here was wrong. Everything is perfect up to 2d relay entering S2 now the bids are:

 

2h = canape (d>h)

2s = equal length

2n = h>d and club shortness

3c = h>d and equal shortages

3d+= h>d and spade shortness S2 list

 

So the bid should have been 3d showing 1-5-4-3 exactly (the first distribution in the S2 list)

As Richard said 5-4-3-1 hands are usually shown at the 3d level :-)

[luis]

About opening bids

 

I'd suggest to play 1c through 2c as in the notes (2c =majors) etc. Then 2d+ openings can be played as you want, with my pd we shifted all the three suited hands to 2x openings to simplify the relay structure and have more bidding room since three suiters are not that common, besides that showing a three suiter inmediately gives us a lot of competitive advantage.

 

We play:

2d = Three suited hand with 4 or 5 clubs

2h = Weak 2 in hearts or three suited hand with short clubs (always 4+h)

2s = Weak 2 in spades

2n = 8-11 Minors (frequently 5/4)

 

Many other options can be played like

2d = Multi

2h/2s = Weak 2's with 5 cards

2n = whatever

 

My approach is less agressive but removing the three suiters from the relay structure is really a good idea, believe me.

 

About Richard comment about 1c auction:

- Maybe 1d positive is more efficient but simplicity is the key to start learning and the 1c structure of German moscito is 100% symetrical to all the relay structures used after 1d,1h,1s so it's very easy to learn. I'd strongly recommend starting with this structure.

[hrothgar]

Quick comment:

 

Most of the Symmetric Relay variants that I have seen show suits S > H > D > C, however, the also use High Shortage First / Lower Length First for resolution.

 

So, in this case

 

1H - 1S* 1H = 4+ Hearts

2C - 2D* 2C = Hearts and Diamonds

2N - 3C* 2NT = 5+ Hearts, 4 Diamonds, Spades shortness

3D 3D = 1=5=4=3 shape

[inquiry]

1) To the question of something other than German Moscito as a base?

 

I think for me, no. The reason is several fold. One, of the versions I have seen, german appears the easiest to learn. I think learning something you can play as a starting point is better than going whole hog with something more complicated. If I like German and find partners who can play it, maybe I will modify it after gaining experience with it. But of course, I can only speak for myself.

 

2) Hrothgar latest post suggesting short suits should be shown using "High Shortage First" is exactly opposite to what is given in German Moscito notes. This kind of varation is what I am trying to short circuit with getting a thread like this started. Find common ground for students like me, so that we can play with other students/trainers without having to learn 10 different variations.

 

3) As for the 2H and higher, I see that Luis changed the RCO bids. This is fine with me, I didn't like them anyway (which is why I left them out). I was surprised to see that he dropped 2D as multi, as I thought that would have been left in. But Luis made an interesting comment.... removing the three suiters from the relay structure is really a good idea, believe me.

 

I too wondered about this 3 suited thing, where sometimes 3 suiters was treated as one suiters, sometimes as 2 suiters, and sometimes as balanced (1NT) openings, and also as equal residue despite 40 in the residue suits. So clearly, then, if you open 2D and 2H with all three suiters, you solve one problem, but perhpas create ohters. For one thing, the relay responses change since the three suiters are removed from S1, S2 and ER2 auctions. For another, when you open 2H, your partner doesn't know if you are weak two or sound opening hand with a three suiter.

 

I think we would need to hear more about this treatment, and how it affects other bids, and have some input from other knowledgable people on alternative opening bids for 2H/2S/2NT. Clearly the simpliest approach might be to use 2D as multi, and 2H/2S/2NT as something else... What other ideas are out there that are easy to use ?

 

Ben

[hrothgar]

Ben brings up a couple of useful questions:

 

The first is the relationship between the openings bids of 2D+ and the rest of the MOSCITO system. Here is my understanding. Sartaj may be able to provide some more information:

 

In traditional MOSCITO, a relay response to a constrcutive opening was strong, artificial, and forcing showing game invitational+ values. This could be somewhat awkward, particularly when RR zoomed to 2S+ immediately following the relay. [in plain english, if RR had a single suited hand, there was a lot of trouble sorting out range below the safety level]

 

Accordingly a decision was made to offload minimum strength single suited hands from the constructive opening strucutre. If a player held a single suited hand with 7-10 HCP and 6+ cards in a major, he should open 2D rather than 1M. If you decide to tinker with the preemptive opening structure, you will need to figure out some way of dealing with this same problem.

[hrothgar]

As to three suiters:

 

The Symmetric relay structure has a lot of very good qualities to it, however, I have never found the mechanisms to describe 3 suiters t be nealy as intuitive as those for 2 suiters or 1 suiters.

 

Three suiters are rare. Any "elegant" solution to decrease the memory load would harm the efficiency of the overall system.

[luis]

Just in case someone is interested the structure over 2d+ bids we use is the following:

 

2d (three suited hand with 4 or 5 clubs)

2h/2s/3d/3h/3s etc... Pass or correct if the short suit is the one bid.

3n/4h/4s = to play

3c/4c/5c = to play, preemptive

2n = asking bid

3c = 4441 shape

3d = asks for shortage

3h/3s/3n = shortage in d,h,s

3d = 5 cards in diamonds

3h = asks for shortage

3s = void in h, 3n = void in spades

3h = 5 hearts

3s = asks for shortage

3n = void in d, 4c = void in s

3s = 5 spades and 0 diamonds

3n = 5 spades and 0 hearts

4c/4d/4h+ = 5 clubs and void in d,h,s

Then a relay asks for controls and denial cuebids are used.

 

2h = Three suited with short clubs or weak 2 in h

3h/4h etc = preemptive

3c/4c/5c = pass or correct if short clubs

2nt = asking bid

3c = 4441 shape, singleton club

3d = weak 2 in h

3h = 5-4-4-0

3h = 4-5-4-0

3s = 4-4-5-0

[inquiry]

Just in case someone is interested the structure over 2d+ bids we use is the following:

 

2d (three suited hand with 4 or 5 clubs)

2h/2s/3d/3h/3s etc... Pass or correct if the short suit is the one bid.

3n/4h/4s = to play

3c/4c/5c = to play, preemptive

2n = asking bid

3c = 4441 shape

3d = asks for shortage

3h/3s/3n = shortage in d,h,s

3d = 5 cards in diamonds

3h = asks for shortage

3s = void in h, 3n = void in spades

3h = 5 hearts

3s = asks for shortage

3n = void in d, 4c = void in s

3s = 5 spades and 0 diamonds

3n = 5 spades and 0 hearts

4c/4d/4h+ = 5 clubs and void in d,h,s

Then a relay asks for controls and denial cuebids are used.

 

2h = Three suited with short clubs or weak 2 in h

3h/4h etc = preemptive

3c/4c/5c = pass or correct if short clubs

2nt = asking bid

3c = 4441 shape, singleton club

3d = weak 2 in h

3h = 5-4-4-0

3h = 4-5-4-0

3s = 4-4-5-0

 

I wanted them, thanks luis. I assume now that all the three suited responses after 1H/1S/1NT/2C are gone if you adopt this schedule. But that raises an interesting question. Do you respond to 1C with 2D and 2H to show these three suited hands at once as responder, or do you revert back to the other schedule and use these only for opening bids? And if you do, what do you do with the S1 hand with clubs? If you have to memorize the 3 suited hands for the 1C auction anyway, is there any real advantage for forgoing them on the opening bid?

 

Ben

[luis]

When we open 1c we use a very simple approach to identify three suiters:

 

1c - 2nt = three suited hand short in a major

3c = relay

3d = short h

3h = relay

3n = 4441

4c/4d/4h = 5-0-4-4, 4-0-5-4, 4-0-4-5

3h = short s

3s = relay

3n = 4441

4c/4d/4h = 0-5-4-4, 0-4-5-4, 0-4-4-5

 

And we use the "extra" space in the 1c-1h structure to show three suiters show to a minor

 

1c 1h (4+ spades)

1s* 1n (4+ hearts)

2c* 2d = three suiter

2h = relay

2s = short clubs

2n = relay

3c = 4441

3d,3h,3s = club void 5 sp,he,di

2n = short diamonds

3c = relay

3d = 4414

3h,3s,3n = diamond void 5sp,he,cl

2h+ = S2 with spades and hearts

 

With this approach three suiters are completely wiped out of the S1 and S2 schemes and thus you have more bidding space for common hands and the relay structure becomes even easier to memorize.

You just have to remember that 1c-2n is the two suiter short to any major and with a minor shortage you bid both majors first and then the 2d bid with 2h+ in S2 as usual.

[inquiry]

Here is a hand that cost me a team match and buried me in 3rd in a team event many years ago. My partner and I should have easily gotten it right playing standard, but didn't. How would this be bid in german moscito? Here is my quess, but I am not all that happy with it.

 

T9543

AT

K86543

void

 

 

AKQ82

KJ982

Q

J5

 

 

1C 2S (two suiter, weak, spades and a minor)

2N* 3C (diamonds and spades)

3D* 4H (5-2-6-0)

4S* 5C (K diamonds, no Q, no Ace)

6S Pass

 

questions. Does 2S promise an honor (A, K or Q) in both suits? 2, Is 4S really a relay asking for quality of the longer suit (in this case diamonds)? and 3) finding parnter has no top spade (you have AKQ), and only diamond queen, and a club void, do you risk 6S on the assumption partner has the heart ACE for his 5-8 hcp?

 

How would you bid this hand?

 

How did the bidding go when I played this hand? I held north and jumped to 4C (splinter) which north helpfully doubled. My partner instead of pass to allow me to redbl to show first round control, bid 4NT immediately. Perhaps I should have shown one ace and a void, but I thought if he was all that interested in a void, he would have passed 4Cx. So I showed one ACE and we stopped in 5S losing the match.

[the hog]

Some musings:

 

I think you are better off retaining the original 3 suited symmetric structure

viz

 

1C 1H

1S 1NT

2C 2D = 3 suiter short minor

 

1C 2C

2D 2H = 3 suited short Major

 

And over limited openings

 

1H 1S*

1NT 2C*

2D 2H*

2S 3 suited short m

 

1S 1N*

2C 2D*

2H 2S*

2NT 3 suited short H

 

As the 3 suiters are comparatively rare it is a total waste of bids and very inefficient to have special 2 level bids showing them.

 

The original symmetric structure as devised by Roy Kerr showed H/M/L shortages. Marston-Burgess changed this in their strong pass system to L/M/H shortage ,and Paul has changed back to H/M/L shortage. I have discussed the reasons for changes with him and their really is no good reason. Spoke to Roy Kerr at the beginning of this year and he pointed out that there is a slight theoretical adv to showing H/M/L, but it is only slight. I don't care which one you use, but it is crucial that we agree on one or else the whole shape structure gets stuffed.

 

Control Asks

 

Symmetric relay had 2 relays - step = weak relay, "Are you min or max for the bidding so far?" Step +1 = relay for AK controls. Not efficient!

 

Early versions of Moscito had 2 control asks step = AKQ, step +1 = AK.

This proved unwieldy.

 

Peter Buchen and Bruce Neill spent a lot of time on this and came up with

After shape

step = relay for AKQ controls

Others except for 4D end signal = RKCB

This method has proven very effective

 

With DCBs you stop holding 0 or 3

 

Also strongly suggest that in dcb you do not look at s/ton Qs and Ks - its too hard

 

In the learning process, the relay structure and final resolution should be the same over limited openings and over 1C. This makes it easy. For this reason I am not enamoured by Luis' 2 openings as the relays are not intuitive.

 

You could easily play an early Moscito structure which is very close to a legal version.

1C = 15+

1D = no 4M

1H = H

1S = S

1NT = both Ms

 

Or the original version

 

1D = both Ms

1H = H

1S = S

1NT = flat 11-14

2C = 6C or 5C+4D

2D = 6D or 5D+4C

While the above is not the most efficient, it does have the advantage of simplicity.

 

Re Notation

 

May I suggest that we use the abbrvs R for relayer and RR for Relay Responder and the * to denote a relay.

 

 

Addendum

 

The other thing I noticed on re reading this thread is that Luis appears to use the Reverser (2H) to show that the Lower ranking suit is longer. It is usually used to denote that the Higher ranking suit is longer. Again we will need to settle on this.

 

As far as other 2 level openings above 2D are concerned, I don't think it matters too much what you play. There are all sorts of odds and sods here.

 

Ron.

[the hog]

Response HCPs Description

2H 5–8 2-suiter (Hearts + other)

2S 5–8 2-suiter (Spades + minor)

2NT 9+ 6+ solid suit; no outside A/K

3C 5–8 1-suiter (Hearts)

3D 5–8 1-suiter (Spades)

3H 5–8 1-suiter (Clubs)

3S 5–8 1-suiter (Diamonds)

3NT 12+ Solid suit + outside A/K’s

 

 

that 2H - 2S 2NT shows Hearts and Spades.

snipped

The relay responses for the 1-suiters are as follows:

1st-relay Asks for suit length; 1st-step = 6 etc.

2nd-relay Asks for shortage; 1st-step = none, 2nd-step = low-$, etc.

(1st-step = low-$, if length greater than 7)

3rd-relay Asks for suit strength; 1st-step = 5 pts in suit, etc.

 

Just downloaded German Moscito from your link, Ben.

The above looks weird and inefficient and does not enable you to find exact shape. However....

 

Also the "impossible negative" is a really poorly designed concept and is heavily liable to pre emption. Do you really play this Luis?, Knowing you, its hard to believe you would play this as these concepts are so poorly designed and inefficient. Surely you have modified this.

[moscito-d]

Hi folks,

 

as it happens, I am one of the authors of German Moscito. A lot has been changed since the version you are referring to, especially break-outs and the asking-bids / denial que section.

 

Unfortunately, at some time we decided that it would be easier for us to maintain the script in german, so there is no current english version. The latest german version is available here: http://www.trsteiner.de/bridge/pdf/Moscito2002_20.pdf

 

Of course I'd also like to share our experiences playing the system, answer questions and give reasons for or system design. However, I will be on vacation for 2 weeks from saturday on. So be patient. :-)

 

Looking forward to an interesting discussion,

 

René

[luis]

Also the "impossible negative" is a really poorly designed concept and is heavily liable to pre emption. Do you really play this Luis?, Knowing you, its hard to believe you would play this as these concepts are so poorly designed and inefficient. Surely you have modified this.

 

We quickly dumped the impossible negative to the trashcan :-). As I mentioned we mantained the opening bids because they are legal under our local regulations and because I specially like the 2c opening with majors. We mantained the relay structure pulling the three suiters away. Then we changed all the asking bids by a generic CAB followed by denial cuebidding. And we modified all the 2d+ openings too.

[luis]

Rene,

 

Nice to see you here :-) we've been playing a modified version of German Moscito in Argentina for two years. We changed a lot of things and maybe that's already changed in the 2002 version but I can't read German, do you know any volunteer that may want to translate the 2002 version into english? Maybe then we can start discussing and improving to reach the BBO German-Moscito standard that Ben suggested :-)

 

Luis

[moscito-d]

Luis,

 

recently I got "fan mail" from someone using my german material. A minute ago, he sent me the translation he made for his english-speaking partner. I didn't have the time to look into it, but put the pdf on my site for your reference:

 

http://www.trsteiner.de/bridge/pdf/Moscito2002_en.pdf

 

BTW we, too, dumped the impossible negative long time ago...

 

We didn't adopt the new response structure to 1C mainly because we were too lazy. Another point is, that this offers the player 4th in hand a chance for preemption in a situation where we didn't have the chance to show a suit or our hand-type.

 

I'd certainly love to participate in the creation of a BBO German Moscito standard, if I find the time...

 

René

[inquiry]

It is becoming increasing obvious that getting the moscito community to agree to a single version will be difficult... you guys are so darn independent and creative... B)

 

Having said that, that seems to be precisely that problem, everyone has their own pet flavor of moscito with their additions and deletions. I have read so many different versions of moscito notes that I am terrifically confused. But after reading the documents, I became convinced that the German Moscito was probably the best for beginners. I look forward to reading the updated from 2002 (I was reading the 1993 version).

 

I am no longer sure we will be able to agree on a standard BBO version, but maybe we could at least come to an agreement on a basic starting version for those members of the bbo community who want to give it a try on line.

 

Ben

[hrothgar]

Here are my own thoughts on the matter.

 

MOSCITO variants can be conceptualized as having four main pieces:

 

(1) The structure of limited opening bids + response schedules

(2) The response structure over the strong club opening

(3) Mechanisms to resolve shape

(4) Auction termination

 

German MOSCITO in general and the version used by Luis in particular represents a significant departure from more commonly played versions. I appreciate Luis's desire to play a variant that is legal for use in Argentina, however, I'm not sure whether this should be high on a list of selection criteria for an international playing community.

 

We're it me, I would suggest standardizing on the following, which I consider to be relatively simple, intuitive, and in tune with the commonly accepted system variants.

 

(1) Opening structure

1C = Strong

1D = No 4 card major

1H = 4+ Hearts, 0-3 Spades

1S = 4+ Spades, 0-3 Hearts

1N = Both majors

 

(2) Over 1C

1D = Negative

1H = Spades, unbalanced

1S = Hearts, unbalanced

1N = Balanced

2C = Dimaonds

2D = Clubs

2H+ = Both minors

 

(3) Standard symmetric relay, High Shortage First

 

(4) 4D = End Signal

Step = Asking for AKQ Slam points

Step +1... = RKCB for suits

[inquiry]

Hi Richard,

 

Your moscito "notes" might also be a good alternative to the German system. I really enjoyed reading them and in fact, have printed versions of the old version and the new one you updated a couple of months ago.

 

Your notes have some nice advantages for us beginners.... you have a lot of example auctions (something missing from, say, the German PDF...and one reason I tried to start this thread), your description of symmetric relays is outstanding. On the downside, 150+ pages is a lot, and you offer too many ALTERNATIVES ways. I am fairly simple minded... tell me how to bid, don't say I can use this relay structure or that one. Also, your dark blue background behind black letters in your tables is difficult to read. And don't get me started on using Frelling 2 bid structure. Also, your four different ways of hand evaluation and your statistical break out of hands seems unnecssary for people who just want to know more about moscito.

 

However, your notes have another big advantage for possible use as a starting point for a generalized BBO Moscito.... they are not only in english, they are in a word document that could be edited and posted somewhere on the web as the system evolves.

 

For others reading this thread, German Moscito circa 1993 is different from 2002 and is different from Richard's 2000 version and is different from his 2002/3 version. I was the person to suggest German moscito as the starting point because the notes in ENGLISH were short, easy to read, and made sense to me. Perhaps some of the other "moscito students" might want to compare the german moscito with yours and we can take a poll or something to see which might be the best starting point. There is a lot to be said for having a document we could edit to meet the "consensus" of this site (surely a popularity contest will not result in the best version possible, but any agreement is better than no agreement... lets just get something we can agree on so we can find on line partners to try this system with).

 

Ben

[hrothgar]

I had always hoped that my notes could be used for an education project.

I agree with Ben's comments that they are currently too complex. I'm working on a streamlined version of the notes that documents two verisons:

 

MOSCITO basic : the system current documented in the core of the document

MOSCITO advanced: the improved relay structures over 1C and 1D/1H

 

Sadly, between thesis and my new job, I'm a bit behind the 8 ball. However, assuming that people were willing to standardize on the version that i wrote up, I could try to create a document describing MOSCITO basic over the weekend. [All of the major changes are in the advanced part of the document]