Opening bid

[0deary]

Pairs imps N/S Vul E/W Not Vul, Declarer East. All play 5 Card Majors and Strong NT

 

♠KQ864

♥KJ2

♦65

♣K63

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&d=n&v=o&b=1

 

East P-?

 

What is your bid, and wha factors do you take into account in your decision please?

 

Thank you

 

0deary

[wank]

it's entirely obvious to open 1s and i'm a relatively sound opener. you have 12 points. no unsupported minor honours or stiff honours to downgrade. yes, aces and 10s are nice but the honour structure is generally fine.

[Tramticket]

What else could you do? Nobody is passing this.

 

Change it to weak NT and four-card majors and I open 1NT.

[steve2005]

Unless you used a time machine and went to 1950 you are opening 1♠ .

[NickRW]

I've played a style where I would have passed - because of the lack of aces, tens, nines or any aggressive shape. But even then it is borderline and, I recognise, a minority decision.

[ggwhiz]

Opening 1♠ is about unanimous in todays game.

 

If you pass and your partner opens, how will you ever convince them your hand is this good? Vul games at imps show a profit if they make 40% of the time or so and in addition to missing those you will lose some partscore battles when partner plays you for more modest values unless you are playing with Attila the Hun.

[neilkaz]

I would not want to partner anyone who doesn't open 1♠ here.

[rhm]

I would not want to partner anyone who doesn't open 1♠ here.

I would open but I do not think terrible things are likely to befall you if you pass this hand in second position (the one where you should be most conservative) and sometimes you get a great score by avoiding a no-play game or slam.

The hand is very borderline and the old advise to subtract a point if you have no ace is still sound advise.

 

I look for different qualities in a partnership

 

Rainer Herrmann

[nige1]

[[hv=s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&d=e&v=n&a=P?]200|300|

It seems that most of us would open 1♠. Some factors you might consider when deciding whether to open are

 

- Description -- High card strength: 12 HCP is adequate. -- Suit quality: ♠KQ864 is a better than average suit. -- Honour distribution and suit-texture: OK (as Wank points out, this is important in borderline cases).

 

- Preparation: You can pass a 1N reply, unless it's forcing, If a 1N reply is forcing, however, you will have to grit your teeth and rebid 2♣. Other replies present less of a problem.

 

- Construction: the best scoring and cheapest contracts -- especially games -- are in the majors and notrumps. You have 5 good ♠s and 3 good ♥s - a sound basis for exploring such contracts.

 

- Competition -- Pre-emption: 1♠ takes away an appreciable amount of opponent's bidding space. -- Lead-direction: 1♠ suggests a useful lead,[/hv]

[PhilG007]

Pairs imps N/S Vul E/W Not Vul, Declarer East. All play 5 Card Majors and Strong NT

 

♠KQ864

♥KJ2

♦65

♣K63

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&d=n&v=o&b=1

 

East P-?

 

What is your bid, and wha factors do you take into account in your decision please?

 

Thank you

 

0deary

1♠ As novices you are taught to open your longest suit What alternatives are there(?!) :rolleyes:

The response might pose a problem What if North responds 1NT and is left to play there? The diamond suit could be open to the winds .

[0deary]

Here is the whole hand and the bidding that prompted this posting:-

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&w=SAT9HAT985D4CJT92&n=SH764DA9873CAQ854&e=SJ7532HQ3DKQJT2C7&d=n&v=o&b=1

 

P-1S-2H-X-P-3C-all pass for 3imps to E/W

 

If it went P-1S-P-2D-P-2N-all pass, N/S are still losing imps

 

Once you open 1S you will pretty much have to hand over 3+imps!

 

On this hand the points around the table look average so is it just an unlucky shape? But a slightly less extreme shape might face similar challenge for N/S. On other hands it could just be average shape but just unlucky points? When does “just unlucky” become “avoid.” Is it “just one of those things” and everyone else will be losing 3imps too, or could we beat the field by better Bridge here?

 

Maybe these factors are relevant, but if so I’m not sure how to weight them:

 

S owns the Spades- hoist the flag! Milton Works points (BBO Convention Cards Acol 11-19 or SAYC 13+); Whole hand shape- Rule 19 (UK Blue Book para 6-Level 2) or Rule 20; poor Hand suit intermediates- top card an 8; Position- when East has passed its slightly more likely that West has points (over South), moreover North has yet to bid in 4th- NS Vulnerable and EW not; 7 losers in S hand; You wouldn’t lead KS (missing the 9) so your rebid isn’t completely solid; S is Ace-less. Is 1S a sound basis for major or NT try. Opening 1S has pre-empt value. If they buy the contract North has a solid lead. (?Drury). The field

 

Any more advice would be very welcome

 

Thank you

 

0deary

[Tramticket]

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&w=SAT9HAT985D4CJT92&n=SH764DA9873CAQ854&e=SJ7532HQ3DKQJT2C7&d=n&v=o&b=1

 

This is an unlucky hand where partner happens to hold a void in your five-card spade suit. The opponents hold an eight-card fit in your longest suit.

 

The real lesson from this hand is that you want to defend on misfits. Unfortunately you can't afford to sit around being over-cautious thinking "it might be a terrible misfit" - you will miss out on to many making contracts your way. Imagine you pass and partner also has a twelve count and a five-card spade suit - you are missing out on a likely game. It's a bidders world (but very occasionally it isn't:)).

[lycier]

1♠, what else?

[nekthen]

pass is a very close second and I would not lose faith in a partner who chose to pass

make the Q♠ the Q♦ and the 5♦ the 5♠ and you will find a lot more passing

[Left2Right]

Rather than recreating the wheel here, I suggest taking the following write-up to heart.

 

Hand Evaluation

 

Richard Pavilec was one of those top professionals during the 80's and 90's.

See his WBF listing.

[RD350LC]

Pairs imps N/S Vul E/W Not Vul, Declarer East. All play 5 Card Majors and Strong NT

 

♠KQ864

♥KJ2

♦65

♣K63

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&d=n&v=o&b=1

 

East P-?

 

What is your bid, and wha factors do you take into account in your decision please?

 

Thank you

 

0deary

Using basic ideas, I count 12 high card points, -1 for no aces, and +1 for the doubleton. Then I consider that I have no singleton honours, and this makes it an opening bid. I would open it 1♠

[eagles123]

pass is a very close second and I would not lose faith in a partner who chose to pass

make the Q♠ the Q♦ and the 5♦ the 5♠ and you will find a lot more passing

 

it's not even remotely close to a pass lol

[miamijd]

[[hv=s=SKQ864HKJ2D65CK63&d=e&v=n&a=P?]200|300|

It seems that most of us would open 1♠. Some factors you might consider when deciding whether to open are

...

 

- Preparation: You can pass a 1N reply, unless it's forcing, If a 1N reply is forcing, however, you will have to grit your teeth and rebid 2♣. Other replies present less of a problem.

 

...

[/hv]

 

Good points, but under Preparation, you really CAN just pass a 1N forcing bid, especially at IMPs. If partner can't bid 2/1, you almost certainly don't have a game (yes, I can invent some hands where you might, but they aren't worth considering and you probably wouldn't get there, anyway).

 

The only time you might go wrong doing that is if partner has the three-card limit raise in spades, but even there, you're just as likely to go plus in 1NT as in 3S, maybe more so.

 

Cheers,

mike

[rmnka447]

No problem, it's definitely a 1 ♠ opener.

 

It's an unfortunate hand, but getting too focused on any individual hand isn't good. The bidding to 3 ♣ was fine. Bidding is an art not a complete science and the best you can hope to do is get to reasonable contracts. Given that has happened, you shouldn't get too concerned about any individual result. Otherwise, you'll start taking views and doing convoluted things with your bidding that will degrade your overall results in the end.

[marklaf]

I would always open-At pairs not opening when you have spades is dangerous.

[0deary]

1S

5 spades to KQ with 12 Milton Work points- ample to open under Acol (>11 points and >Rule 19), moreover

N deserves to know that S owns the 12 points. If S passes we could easily miss a decent contract

7 losers- fine to open

1S controls the first level of bidding for N/S- pre-empting value

S hand is a good basis for S or NT or even H contract

You get the spade lead if needs be

The rest of the field are going to open 1S anyway

 

Pass

Its a game of winning tricks: S only has one sure (slow) trick (when 1S contracting for 7 tricks- quite a shortfall)

The intermediates are very poor- not even KQ9xx in your showcase suit

Other honours are unsupported

Substandard points to open under a 13+ SAYC

Structurally a defensive and not an offensive hand, moreover

2nd position under (what could easily be) a heavy West

EW are not Vul so quite likely West will intervene

and in consequence N might well have to strain to bid now (in 4th)

NS are Vulnerable so more expensive to slip

 

Pencilling in average points and suits I imagine N hands will cluster to 11 points with shape 3,3,4,3, so the value bid is closer to 3S bid than 2S, something like:

 

xxx, Axx, KQxx, Qxx

 

I’ll pencil in a losing 1 1/2S, 1/2H, 1D and 1 1/2C, so it looks like a losing 3imps even on such an average hand :)

 

What am I missing?

 

Thank you

 

0deary

[vmsmith]

pass and pray that those who open 1S never sober up

[0deary]

If you have reservations opening the 1S hand then maybe

 

-change your CC from “1S means 12+” to “1S means 12+ with caveats” and describe what aspects you won’t open, (ie don’t automatically open each an every 12), or

-tweak your 2S response from 6-9 to e.g. 7-10, and/or

-treat first bid after passing as forcing for one round- e.g. P-P-P-1D-P-1S= forcing for one round

 

The vast majority would open though, and enormous thanks to Tramticket’s gently exploring elsewhere, and based on 32 posters as at 9.3.2018:-

 

(NB "5 card majors/SNT" compare "your favourite system")

 

Board number Hand HCP Description Percentage open

 

0 KQ864,KJ2,65,K63 12 the hand that started my interest 88.2%

1 86543,KJ2,KQ,K63 12 move S honours to D 51.5%

2 KQ86,KJ2,654,K63 12 move one spade card to diamonds 50.0%

4 KQ864,K62,65,K63 11 change JH to a 6 42.4%

3 KJ864,KJ2,65,K63 11 change QS to JS 30.3%

6 KJT64,KT9,65,KT9 10 drop the JH but build up the 10s a bit 27.3 %

5 KJ864,K62,65,K63 10 and remove the 10s now 18.2%

 

(spreadsheet with two sheets: raw data and summary: if you want a copy send me your email address)

 

Good luck dear bridge players!

[NickRW]

If you have reservations opening the 1S hand then maybe

 

-change your CC from “1S means 12+” to “1S means 12+ with caveats” and describe what aspects you won’t open, (ie don’t automatically open each an every 12),...

 

 

 

Personally, to those people who bother to look at my CC (most of whom are at least as experienced as I am), I strongly object to having to explain why, for example

 

AT9xx

ATxx

xx

xx

 

is (usually, quite a lot) better than

 

Qxxxx

Qxxx

Qx

Qx

 

 

CCs are about brief system explanations. Not a beginners book on hand evaluation.

 

Nick

[Guest EdgarCrits]

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