Bridge Base Advanced

[whereagles]

Ben, as I said I understand your point. Now I hope you understand mine: for me, something as trivial as michaels responses isn't a thing you set at table after a bidding disaster/sucess. It's something you agree in advance with pard :D

[inquiry]

Some great news, at last count, 17 members have already submitted votes to Elianna for the poll.

 

Further great news, gold star experts are readily agreeing to participate in the poll. The biggest news in that area is that, Phillipe Cronier and Beverly Kraft have agreed to join the panel!! Along with a lot of BBO personalities, Shep, Rado, ppilot, tobi, and others. Fred, justin, ritong, Phillipe, luis have already sent in their choices, and we will have lots of interesting differences to discuss. So it looks like this will work.

 

One word of advise to the members submitting votes.

1) please save your comments for when the threads is opened

2) please make it clear what votes go with what question,

3) DO NOT SUBMIT multiple answers for a single question, this is not an either or proposition, you can only submit one answer. If you submit more than one we will choose the one that gives you the LOWEST SCORE.

 

Ben

[Elianna]

To clarify some things that Ben said:

 

Index your answers IN THE SAME WAY that Ben indexed the problems. It makes it a lot easier to quickly verify that your answer to E is in the E answer column, rather than have to remember that E is the fifth letter in the alphabet. This is minor, but it would be helpful to me if you could try to maintain continuity.

 

Please also be sure to click the "private message" link, not the "send email" link. It's very helpful to have all replies in the same place.

 

Anyway, I look forward to hearing from more of you. I may rant, but I accept all forms of answers! :)

 

Some of you (and you know who you are) regularly post, and have yet to send in your answers. I look forward to hearing from you! :)

[P_Marlowe]

To clarify some things that Ben said:

 

Index your answers IN THE SAME WAY that Ben indexed the problems. It makes it a lot easier to quickly verify that your answer to E is in the E answer column, rather than have to remember that E is the fifth letter in the alphabet. This is minor, but it would be helpful to me if you could try to maintain continuity.

 

Please also be sure to click the "private message" link, not the "send email" link. It's very helpful to have all replies in the same place.

 

Anyway, I look forward to hearing from more of you. I may rant, but I accept all forms of answers! :)

 

Some of you (and you know who you are) regularly post, and have yet to send in your answers. I look forward to hearing from you! :)

Hi Elianna, hi all

 

I am not very comfortable with the HTML Editor,

but maybe osmeone could make a template, which

one could use via the quote option.

 

This is of cource just a minor improvement, in case

the forum gets going and the number of answers

increases to a level above the sky.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[whereagles]

Phillipe Cronier is joining? That is great. He's one of the game's greatest theoreticians of today.

[Brandal]

this system is too advanced for me.

Does this mean you are not going to particpate? IF so that is unfortunate, as I am sure we were all looking forward to your participation.

I'm not sure I fully understand the meaning of the thread.

 

Is it to "build" a BBO-standard-for-all-system?

 

Or is it basis for discussing hands?

 

Both?

[inquiry]

this system is too advanced for me.

Does this mean you are not going to particpate? IF so that is unfortunate, as I am sure we were all looking forward to your participation.

I'm not sure I fully understand the meaning of the thread.

 

Is it to "build" a BBO-standard-for-all-system?

 

Or is it basis for discussing hands?

 

Both?

It is not to build a BBO-for-all-system. There is two of those already.. BBO-basic and BBO-advanced. It is to probe bridge judgement and what factors might make an expert choose one bid over the other.

 

However, it is clear from the replies to this thread and from what happens day-to-day on line, not all players who play some of the standard conventions mentioned in BBO advanced (or basic) play the follow up the same way. While there are multiple "right" ways to respond to a conventional bid, you need to settle on one or you run into the problem that Wherreeagle has with michaels above. So a side effect will be will find what the "experts" think the follow up on such conventions are.

[Brandal]

It is not to build a BBO-for-all-system. There is two of those already.. BBO-basic and BBO-advanced. It is to probe bridge judgement and what factors might make an expert choose one bid over the other.

 

However, it is clear from the replies to this thread and from what happens day-to-day on line, not all players who play some of the standard conventions mentioned in BBO advanced (or basic) play the follow up the same way. While there are multiple "right" ways to respond to a conventional bid, you need to settle on one or you run into the problem that Wherreeagle has with michaels above. So a side effect will be will find what the "experts" think the follow up on such conventions are.

Ok thanks Ben

 

I guess the BBO systems already in place cater

most pickup-partnerships,we're just too lazy to

use them.

 

For those who always wonder if my head's screwed on right,

I did NOT mean everyone should play the same system,I meant

a system designed for pickup partners/indy

 

:)

[bearmum]

Some great news, at last count, 17 members have already submitted votes to Elianna for the poll.

 

 

Ben

I may be stupid - but HOW do I put my vote in to Elianna?

[Elianna]

Go to the main post that lists ALL the poll questions, then send me a private message. If you still need help, come back to this post, and you'll see a button that says "pm". Hit that, send me a message with with your responses.

 

I hope that this helps!

[Chamaco]

Ben,

don't you think that the System notes to refer to for the Bidding Polls should be in a separate PINNED post ?

 

I mean, if you leave those notes into this thread, this thread is likely to get buried by the dozens of threads on the various hands to discuss ? B)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

one further remark regarding new convetions in BBO Advanced:

Do not overcomplicate the system, keep the description of the

system fairly simple.

The entry level for Newcomers, who want to participate, should

not be to high.

I know adding, one further agreement doe not hurt, but the 2nd

one does not hurt as well, ...

 

The main focus of the poll should be on judgement calls.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[cherdano]

Bridge Base Advanced (and Bridge Base Basic) date back to the very first days of BBO. My original plan was to eventually turn these areas of our site into comprehensive system notes with plenty of example hands and quizzes so that people could test their knowledge of these systems.

 

I recall thinking that this was an important goal to achieve.

(...)

 

Probably there are people out there who would be interested on working on this project (which would involve trying to come up with a consensus as to what various bids should mean and then creating .lin files to present the information).

 

Then again, perhaps we should use Bridge World Standard. We have excellent relations with The Bridge World magazine and they have already done a lot of work to try to define an effective system for advanced players that most experts (in America at least) are comfortable with.

 

Any thoughts on this?

Something in me thinks that BBO advanced would have the best chances of being useful/successful if it just tries to fix what the majority of advanced and expert players would expect when playing "Let's play 2/1 and udca, fine p?" with a pick-up partner on BBO. (This would make it substantially less advanced than BWS, I guess, and different enough that it deserves to exist independantly.)

 

Exceptions are situations where everybody likes to play some convention, but there is no default choice (defense against 1NT, continuations after 2NT rebid etc.).

 

I think BBO adv comes pretty close to this goal, with some exceptions (EKCB, 4♠ as kickback when hearts agreed,...).

 

Arend

[inquiry]

My feeling is also that we should not try to convert BBO Advanced into a complex, complete system like BWS. The point is to have something fairly basic that you can play with a pickup expert partner on line. If it wasn't a pick up partner, you could customize it to fit your desires. I use BBO advanced as the basic system with several players, and we have added things to it over time (first to go is cappelletti).

 

Ben

[inquiry]

After reading the responses to the question should the panel include the "optional" serious 3NT (and by extension, LTTC) in their replies, I have decided the answer should be yes. The reason is fairly simple. We needed to decide if it was on or off (for sure) to make the answers make sense. But by turning it on, we get to see when the pro's would consider 3NT NOT to be serious even after a major fit is found (if such situation could exist), and how they would judge when to use this convention this convention and when not to use it. Since these last two issues are something I am interested in (so you can imagine some future borderline hands in this area), I thought making this addition would be a good idea.

 

IF last train to clarksville is something you are not familar with, you might want to read this (part II of improving 2/1 by Fred) article .... What is last train to clarksville

 

New BPO poll will be posted in ~12 hours. Votes must be four days (~96 hours) after posting of the poll.

 

Ben

[Double !]

"Take the Last Train to Clarksville, and I'll meet you at the station.

You can be there by 5:30 'cause I've made your reservation, don't be slow, oh no, no, no. Oh no, no, no"

[mike777]

Ben are long/short suit game tries part of system? I do not see them here but perhaps I am missing them? If not discussed do we assume what we want for the poll?

[inquiry]

Ben are long/short suit game tries part of system? I do not seem them here but perhaps I am missing them? If not discussed do we assume what we want for the poll?

I recall no comments concerning long and short suit game tries. So the assumption is no, they are not part of the system. What exist is what is in the first part of this post. With the development of Full Disclosure we will have to be clear on such actions, so the group approving what might become the "official" BBO advanced FD version will have to make a ruling on such issues I guess.

[bluecalm]

(first to go is cappelletti).

 

Yeah this sucks and no world class partnertship play it. Let's change it to something simple and much better like landy or multilandy.

[Gerben42]

Wow a thread revival after 4 years!

Let's change it to simple like ... Multi Landy

 

Not that the convention is light years better than Capp, but it's not "simple". Simple is Dbl for the majors, rest natural.

[gwnn]

I think Landy is simpler, 2♣=majors, rest (even x)=natural, I mean artificial 2♣ is almost natural nowadays isn't it?

[whereagles]

(first to go is cappelletti).

 

Yeah this sucks and no world class partnertship play it. Let's change it to something simple and much better like landy or multilandy.

correction: capp sucks beyond belief

 

prefer simple landy and 2♦ overcall = natural (KISS principle)

 

advances to landy should include 2♦ = you pick major kthxbai

 

NOW... how about some new set of hands? :)

[bluecalm]

Simple is Dbl for the majors, rest natural.

I think Landy is simpler, 2♣=majors, rest (even x)=natural, I mean artificial 2♣ is almost natural nowadays isn't it?

 

Whatever is fine by me. I would prefer Landy as I like penalty double. Another option is 2C majors, 2D = d+M, rest natural.

 

Capp sucks hard especially in casual partnerships. So many problems after 2C overcall and their bid (what suit partner have ? how to get to know this ? what if they are in 4H and we would like to defend if partner has spade ? How to inquire for longer major/invite game opposite 2D? is it standard ? etc. etc. etc.)

[nige1]

Please provide a link to a topic that describes poll-format, how to participate, and a rough schedule. If, currently, there is no such topic, I would be grateful if somebody would provide one and Inquiry would pin it.

[Vampyr]

(2) After 1M-2x, which bids show extras? We had a thread on this earlier, and there was a pretty strong consensus that three-level high reverses in new suits do show extras (although I know some people who play that they don't). But how about 1♥-2x-2♠ (Max Hardy says doesn't show extras in the classic 2/1 book)? How about 1M-2x-3x? 1M-2x-2NT? Is it permissable to rebid 2NT without a true balanced hand?

 

The point is, that "should" be enough information for players to sit down and play with each other.

 

 

I think that when something like the above is unknown, it's not enough information.