What does this double mean?

[lamford]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk5hq9874d4cakq53&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=pp3d4c(clubs%20%2B%20major)4ddp]133|200[/hv]

IMPs converted to VPs.

 

By an unpassed hand, partner's double would be "bid your major" and 4H and 4S would be natural [corrected from original post]. Does this change here?

Edited February 17, 2018 by lamford

[helene_t]

So dbl and 4♥ mean the same?

 

If the idea is that x is a mild slam invite while 4♥ is a sign off, then I think it also applies to a passed hand.

[lamford]

So dbl and 4♥ mean the same?

 

If the idea is that x is a mild slam invite while 4♥ is a sign off, then I think it also applies to a passed hand.

Yes, on reflection, 4H and 4S by an un-passed hand have to be to play, and double must say "bid your major". The doubler can then move if suitable when he knows the major. By a passed hand, 4H is pass or correct, 4S is to play in spades or clubs, and double should be either penalties or "bid your major". I was persuaded by some good players that the latter was better on the grounds of frequency.

[helene_t]

By a passed hand,[...] and double should be either penalties or "bid your major". I was persuaded by some good players that the latter was better on the grounds of frequency.

So what hand would need to dbl because 4♥ is not suitable? Mild slam invite? I can't really think of anything else.

[lamford]

So what hand would need to dbl because 4♥ is not suitable? Mild slam invite? I can't really think of anything else.

The hand my partner had: ♠ AQxx ♥ x ♦xxx ♣JTxxx when he is too good for 4S when we make 7C or 7S opposite ♠KJxxx ♥Axx ♦ none ♣ AKQxx. So, he doubles, saying "bid your major", and then corrects the likely 4H to 5C. He is now known to be making a slam try or he would have just bid 4S (pass or correct as well). This one I got wrong and -510 was just punishment.

[MrAce]

He has an easy 4♥ bid if he wants a major, he can't be asking to play there since he is coming from pass.

Despite what i wrote above this double shows cards in case they continue bidding. It is like a cue bid. Pd can not have a penalty double even if you cherry pick a hand for a penalty double.

You may ask why not 4♥ but DBL? As I said above pd will bid 4♥ even with 0 hcp and 4-4 majors. Dbl tells you he has values too, imho.

[gszes]

Yes, on reflection, 4H and 4S by an un-passed hand have to be to play, and double must say "bid your major". The doubler can then move if suitable when he knows the major. By a passed hand, 4H is pass or correct, 4S is to play in spades or clubs, and double should be either penalties or "bid your major". I was persuaded by some good players that the latter was better on the grounds of frequency.

 

4h = POC 4s = spades or clubs covers everything the two suiter might have. In conjunction with this those first two choices might be best off as limited to a hand not good enough to x. A passed hand can still have a tremendous range as far as effectiveness

and slam capability that cannot be simply expressed with a 4h or 4s bid. X should be reserved for those hands that might consider slam. It could be as simple as Axxx Axxx xx xxx a big major suit fit with a couple of aces all the way to Kxxxx x xxxx Axx and a strong willingness to consider slam IF spades is the major. Thus a sequence of 3d 4c 4d x p 4h p 4s would show this type of slam interested hand. That may be what you meant when you said show your major but I felt it necessary to add the extra info.