Event 12+ discussion

[frank0]

I'll open this thread to discuss possible ways to deal with event 12 and further.

 

- You can continue to debate MP vs. IMP, best vs. not, KO vs RR, etc. here.

 

- Let me know (post here or private message) if you are interested in organizing this event. I might be able to handle one or two more, but cannot guarantee to do it forever. For future organizer, you can set up your own rule, or continue the way I did.

 

Thanks,

Frank

[xbabarx]

IMPs. ..BH. ..RR

[gordontd]

I continue to request not best hand. Don't mind so much whether MP or IMP.

[gwnn]

Anything but best hand IMP is good for me.

 

I wouldn't mind a straight KO. Yes the seeding points are a bit random, but I wouldn't mind totally random KOs (like the FA Cup).

[heart76]

IMP not BH. MP ok also.

RR is fine, unless you want to shorten it and go for direct KO. In this case I'd think a larger number of boards is better.

 

It's very nice of you taking care of this and actually listening to all voices. Keep up the good work :)

[twisterrz]

Anything but imps best hand :) Cheers!

[nekthen]

Best Hand is awful. Knowing you have the best hand can certainly distort the bidding and possibly the play as well. It is not bridge

[broze]

My 0.2$ (again):

 

I don't feel strongly between IMPs and MP (maybe MP is the better overall test but IMPs is good fun for different reasons).

 

However, I strongly prefer best hand with these GIB tournies. Defending with GIB is an abomination to bridge and should be avoided as far as possible.

[nige1]

IMO:

• Best hand. Arguably not Bridge but it does increase the skill element.
• MPs. Reduces the chance of a match turning on the result of just one high-scoring board.
• Swiss. A improvement on round-robin and knock-out which -- allows long matches among those in contention -- and has less risk of the 2nd best player being eliminated early.

[smerriman]

However, I strongly prefer best hand with these GIB tournies. Defending with GIB is an abomination to bridge and should be avoided as far as possible.

I agree. Best hand may not be bridge, but defending with robots is even less like bridge.

 

My hope is that one day BBO will bring in an option where best hand means either you or your partner has the best hand; that would add a lot of variety to the auctions.

[el mister]

Slight preference for best hand MPs. Also like a straight KO tournament.

[barmar]

My 0.2$ (again):

Is that inflation, or are your ideas really worth 10x everyone else's? :)

[gszes]

Is that inflation, or are your ideas really worth 10x everyone else's? :)

HEHE I have never even had anyone say a "penny for your thoughts" so 20 cents is someone with an astronomical ego:)))) TYTY for running these and I would be happy to take on the job but am clueless how you manage to do everything that you do.

FWIW Best hand IMPS (this will help eliminate the anti bridge passing due to the risk of missing games). Scoring a round robin by total score is just not fair since the hands are not duplicated and a string of dull hands and small victories can

get one eliminated when there are much more whimsical hands elsewhere. I would propose a round robin of say 16 board matches using win/loss of each match (swiss style) (TIES COUNT AS TIES) rather than the size of the victory in deciding who moves on to the knock out round. If there are TIES at the end of the round robin start with head to head then go to total imps. If this fails to remedy the problem then give the player with the HIGHER seeding the benefit of moving forward. NO COIN TOSSES SHEESH. SEEDING for the knock out round is changed to reflect how each player did in the round robin phase. One more change I would propose is that the length of the knock out matches be decided and played as a GROUP. Give each player say 1 week (if this is programmatically possible) to complete their (who knows how many boards) and turn in their result when both have completed all of their boards. NO BOARD DOOVERS due to stuff like my hand wasn't the best hand. A mechanical error can occur that can be quite costly. If this happens STOP and ask the TD (who should err on the side of NOT granting a undo) for an undo which will be granted UNLESS the bot play has revealed some important piece of information affecting your LOP/DEFENSE if you have already followed at your next opportunity forget it. There is also no redress if you are playing a hopeless (including unfavorable suit splits) contract (even if it was a sacrifice). If an undo is not programmatically possible then eliminating the board is a great option rather than a replay.

 

If a knock out round ends in a tie then let the higher seeded player move on. If the championship round ends in a tie then both are declared winners. (this isn't las vegas where breaking ties are worth a ton of money).

[smerriman]

One more change I would propose is that the length of the knock out matches be decided and played as a GROUP. Give each player say 1 week (if this is programmatically possible) to complete their (who knows how many boards) and turn in their result when both have completed all of their boards. NO BOARD DOOVERS due to stuff like my hand wasn't the best hand. A mechanical error can occur that can be quite costly. If this happens STOP and ask the TD (who should err on the side of NOT granting a undo) for an undo which will be granted UNLESS the bot play has revealed some important piece of information affecting your LOP/DEFENSE if you have already followed at your next opportunity forget it. There is also no redress if you are playing a hopeless (including unfavorable suit splits) contract (even if it was a sacrifice). If an undo is not programmatically possible then eliminating the board is a great option rather than a replay.

None of that is possible with challenges.

[Wackojack]

In the past couple of months, I have been challenged regularly by a beginner personal friend who is keen to learn. He has not had any lessons and in the challenge he judges what bid to make purely from the robots prompts. He likes imp best hand the most because it gives him more chance to play the hands. (A thing that many beginners and non beginners like) We have played about 400 hands and my average is just over 2 imps per hand. When we have played non best hand the difference is much smaller. I was beaten by a few imps once over 16 boards and tied once with MP.

 

That is why I prefer best hand. When GIB opps get the best hand the randomness definitely increases. I appreciate that on a few hands you can make deductions that you cannot make with non best hands. nevertheless it is still a test of bridge skills and to describe it as non-bridge is going a bit far.

[broze]

Is that inflation, or are your ideas really worth 10x everyone else's? :)

 

Ha! Good catch

[Mkgnao]

I dislike IMPs non-best hand, since I do not enjoy losing a match based on a random finesse slam swing coupled with a lot of boring boards. Anything else will do.

 

Straight KO sounds fun, simply use the same seeding procedure as used for the premier events at the Nationals.

[shail100]

defending with GIB is painful. hence prefer best hand

 

need more boards to reduce luck factor in imps. hence prefer MP

 

My vote MP(best hand).

 

 

I can live with regular hands, but then prefer imps and longer matches.

[Phil]

I don't understand the complaints about non best hand. At the table we defend twice as many hands as we declare. Additionally, best hand lets us do stupid robot tricks that arent profitable otherwise.

 

While theres not much to think about with a yarb, this reflects the ebb and flow of live bridge as well.

[smerriman]

I don't understand the complaints about non best hand. At the table we defend twice as many hands as we declare.

At the table, your partner does everything he can to help you - opening lead conventions, signals, etc.

 

With GIB, your partner leads and plays based on the assumption that you can magically guess which suit he wants you to switch to without any signals.

[Phil]

At the table, your partner does everything he can to help you - opening lead conventions, signals, etc.

 

With GIB, your partner leads and plays based on the assumption that you can magically guess which suit he wants you to switch to without any signals.

 

True, but everyone has the same handicap. You have to make it easy for them and fall back on logic.

[smerriman]

Yeah. Just most of the time it comes down to random guesses - with one guess being the difference between 0% and 100% on the board.

[Phil]

Yeah. Just most of the time it comes down to random guesses - with one guess being the difference between 0% and 100% on the board.

So would you rather have a guess due to a robot that pitches 12 IMPs or one board? Thats the IMPs / MPs argument.

 

As far as best hand, well its true that keeping their hands off defense is sensible, but it also means not being able to apply an exploitive strategy to best hand.

[smerriman]

Yeah, thus my earlier comment about best-combined-hands being the best of both worlds, if that were possible one day.

[shail100]

At the table, your partner does everything he can to help you - opening lead conventions, signals, etc.

 

With GIB, your partner leads and plays based on the assumption that you can magically guess which suit he wants you to switch to without any signals.

 

 

agree whole heartedly.

 

defending with pd who is not giving or following signals is a complete waste of time.