Pre-empted?

[Tramticket]

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IMPs

 

Your bid?

[eagles123]

4s

[broze]

Yes, 4♠

[JanisW]

I don't know how heavily I'm actually preempted. 4♥ can also be bid to make and bidding 4♠ can cause a lot of pain with such a rotten suit....

But I guess I'd bid 4♠, too. If I'm allowed to play there undoubled I feel that should yield a fine result.

The real problem arises if I get doubled, P will never run looking on ♠xx♥xxx♦10xx♣Jxxxx, where we belong in 5♦ or ♠Kx♥xxx♦xx♣KJ10xxx where we actually have a shot at making 5♣.

And if I run on my own P tables ♠Jxxx,♥xxx,♦x,♣Kxxxx as dummy...

 

What would a redoule mean? It would be undiscussed in my partnership

I guess it cannot be meant to make, that just makes no sense whatsoever, because 4SX= would already be great, so it should show a playable minor with some tolerance for the other. If P has a strong minor he bids his minor if not he bids 4NT and I bid mine.

[pescetom]

What would a redoule mean? It would be undiscussed in my partnership

I guess it cannot be meant to make, that just makes no sense whatsoever, because 4SX= would already be great, so it should show a playable minor with some tolerance for the other. If P has a strong minor he bids his minor if not he bids 4NT and I bid mine.

As we discussed (if he remembers :) ) redouble means just that, 4NT means that he can play both minors.

[apollo1201]

Trying to look serious (but deeply terrified inside) 4S

[ggwhiz]

4♠.

 

Might suck but could be a double game swing, cheap dive etc. I once overcalled 1♠ and went for 1100 right there so this doesn't scare me.

[0deary]

Pass

 

I presume South hasn’t got a spade suit as well as the 2H bid. And North has chosen not to Ogust 2NT so the direct 4H could have anywhere from a weakish pre empt to a very solid 4H game. There are 9 clubs out, so I could easily see N/S making 4H based on a H/C double fit

 

So 4S is an obvious bid, hoping for a S/D double fit? The trouble is on the H lead and ruff I’m already down to Qxxx trumps opposite quite possibly Honour xx. Where is my play now? If I play on D one opponent often ruff painlessly and another H. If I try to pull a few trumps before turning to the D they have another tempo or two with H taps. I can see an extremely expensive lesson in 4S doubled, no thanks. :)

[nige1]

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IMPsYour bid?[/hv]

I rank

1. 4♠ = NAT. Practical gamble.
2. Double = T/O. Usually shows primary ♠ support . Hence not much of a distortion.
3. 5♦ = NAT. Trust in the long strong suit.
4. Pass = NAT. Could be right but anti-room.
5. 4N = UNT. But if you bid 5♦ over 4♣ it is unclear that you hold ♠.

[GrahamJson]

I guess that I am alone but I think that 5D may be the percentage choice. As oppo lack diamond honours it is more difficult for them to double than 4S. If you do have a spade fit then 5D may come in too, and if you don’t have a fit 5D is certainly better. Lastly, if oppo go to 5H you want a diamond, not a spade, lead.

 

Of course you can argue than you can bid 4S then bail out to 5D if doubled. Perhaps that is the best tactic, but it sounds a bit desperate to me, and you are more likely to be doubled in 5D than if you were to bid it confidently immediately.

[el mister]

Those are some ropey spades I'm looking at. Don't mind either of 4S or 5D but I think I'd double tbh, which doesn't seem a popular choice. Must imply spades as Nige1 indicates.

 

Would 4N have play here if pard bids it in response to the X, showing a flat-ish hand and a couple of H stops?

[Tramticket]

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On this occasion, both 4♠ and 5♦ will go for big penalties. We conceded 800 in 5♦ - could have been worse!

[eagles123]

oh well, ***** happens

[msjennifer]

We double weak 2bids very often with tolerance for the other major.Here partner has passed and my hand in isolation is worth fighting upto 3Diamonds.I certainly can’t bid all alone beyond that level and I will pass this hand as I do not expect much from my partner.And I do not like phantoms.Some May venture 4S but one has to foresee that the weak spade suit is going to be tapped immediately.One ,then,will have to carry all those precious diamonds home.

[PhilG007]

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IMPs

 

Your bid?

We are in tiger country My highly developed sense of danger tells me to PASS

If you know where you're going,go there quickly. But I am in unchartered waters

So discretion is the better part of valour

[Mkgnao]

4N = UNT. But if you bid 5♦ over 4♣ it is unclear that you hold ♠.

 

Unclear? In my book, 4NT shows a two-suiter (often minors) and pulling 5♣ to 5♦ ♦ + ♠. What's the alternative to this meaning: bidding 5♦ through 4NT as a slam try in ♦?

[Cyberyeti]

You provided the reveal before I asked the questtion that was in my mind, if it goes 4♠-P-P-X do you pull to diamonds ?

 

You're also unlucky that N took a very pessimistic view, if I don't take it a bit slower partner has xx, KQJxxx, xxx, Qx and 6 is laydown

[Tramticket]

You provided the reveal before I asked the questtion that was in my mind, if it goes 4♠-P-P-X do you pull to diamonds ?

 

You're also unlucky that N took a very pessimistic view, if I don't take it a bit slower partner has xx, KQJxxx, xxx, Qx and 6 is laydown

 

Yes, sorry about providing the reveal too quickly.

 

The hand was played 24 times in a reasonably strong field and 11 pairs were allowed to play in 4♥. I was surprised by this - but I think you have answered mthis. Other North's took a more optimistic view and bid their hand through a different route (a strength showing 2NT or a splinter maybe?). In this case we are less likely to compete to the four or five-level!

[0deary]

Having “correctly” passed can I raise a nasty awkward issue after seeing the whole hand (after yet again an excellent question from Tramtick):

 

To open 2H South almost universally announces 6-9 points and a half decent suit in H. Moreover in first position vulnerable South should show top end of the range. I’m expecting South to open 8/9 points and a good suit

 

Here 1 of South points is a Jack in Jx spade and I think it should be ignored. So effective South opened 2H vul in first position on KJTxxx. Thats only 4 sure tricks, potentially 4 off vulnerable. I think this is quite wrong and in my personal view a psyche

 

North now has such a cracking hand! Surely slam should routinely be explored with a 2N bid? North didn’t do so: went straight to game and no more! Sadly I think North must have been well aware that South could open sub minimum and has fielded that. That is so bad! And how can E/W know?

 

Poor East is asked to make a sensible bid after this. For my money GJepson made a very sensible 5D simply assuming 4H makes without any slam interest, and that bid will now be zapped

 

I’d be curious what a Director would make of this?

[Cyberyeti]

Having “correctly” passed can I raise a nasty awkward issue after seeing the whole hand (after yet again an excellent question from Tramtick):

 

To open 2H South almost universally announces 6-9 points and a half decent suit in H. Moreover in first position vulnerable South should show top end of the range. I’m expecting South to open 8/9 points and a good suit

 

Here 1 of South points is a Jack in Jx spade and I think it should be ignored. So effective South opened 2H vul in first position on KJTxxx. Thats only 4 sure tricks, potentially 4 off vulnerable. I think this is quite wrong and in my personal view a psyche

 

North now has such a cracking hand! Surely slam should routinely be explored with a 2N bid? North didn’t do so: went straight to game and no more! Sadly I think North must have been well aware that South could open sub minimum and has fielded that. That is so bad! And how can E/W know?

 

Poor East is asked to make a sensible bid after this. For my money GJepson made a very sensible 5D simply assuming 4H makes without any slam interest, and that bid will now be zapped

 

I’d be curious what a Director would make of this?

 

Don't judge other peoples' preempts by your own standards, look at their card.

 

Nothing to do with director (at least in the UK).

 

Provided 2♥ is natural in the UK (at least 4 cards) you can AGREE to open a weak 2 on whatever you like (xxxx, xxxx, x, xxxx was a classic first in hand I opened 2♠ admittedly nobody vul to swing something like 26 IMPs into the plus column recently). Our agreement is 0-10 4+ cards although it's very unlikely to be <5 cards first in vul.

[eagles123]

Having “correctly” passed can I raise a nasty awkward issue after seeing the whole hand (after yet again an excellent question from Tramtick):

 

To open 2H South almost universally announces 6-9 points and a half decent suit in H. Moreover in first position vulnerable South should show top end of the range. I’m expecting South to open 8/9 points and a good suit

 

Here 1 of South points is a Jack in Jx spade and I think it should be ignored. So effective South opened 2H vul in first position on KJTxxx. Thats only 4 sure tricks, potentially 4 off vulnerable. I think this is quite wrong and in my personal view a psyche

 

North now has such a cracking hand! Surely slam should routinely be explored with a 2N bid? North didn’t do so: went straight to game and no more! Sadly I think North must have been well aware that South could open sub minimum and has fielded that. That is so bad! And how can E/W know?

 

Poor East is asked to make a sensible bid after this. For my money GJepson made a very sensible 5D simply assuming 4H makes without any slam interest, and that bid will now be zapped

 

I’d be curious what a Director would make of this?

 

surely this is a windup?

[msjennifer]

The question posed was what would you bid with the given hand.Unfortunately some posters are blaming the opponents for missing a slam and calling the director etc.What was expected was a reasonable argument for bidding or passing with the given hand.Let me tell you, the director can do absolutely nothing ,if called,in the situation.There are no written laws on the weak 2Bids requirements and one can always psyche.Even if a director admonishes the opponent if he indeed has psyched,there will not be any redress in this case as opponents were practically cold for 6 hearts.I shall quote one example.A players RHO opened 1C(18 plus,any) and this player very short in minors and holding just 8 points in queens and jacks bid 1NT which was explained by his partner as a destructive MINORS two suiter.The opponents missed a cold 5D game and when the director asked to keep the scores an appeal was made.t

The appeals committee called the player in question and he explained that he had psyched.The scores were left as they were and the appeal for redress was also rejected.

[pescetom]

There are no written laws on the weak 2Bids requirements and one can always psyche.

This is not entirely and universally so.

In ACBL for instance I believe that weak 2 bids must be alerted if they can be less than 5 cards, and pre-empts with less than 2 HCP must be pre-alerted.

In FIGB (Italy) written rules forbid psyches (of any kind) except at high levels of competition and directors will frown on any opening with less than 5 HCP (despite the apparent lack of a current written limit).

I imagine that other restrictions will apply elsewhere.

[nige1]

Unclear? In my book, 4NT shows a two-suiter (often minors) and pulling 5♣ to 5♦ ♦ + ♠. What's the alternative to this meaning: bidding 5♦ through 4NT as a slam try in ♦?

With spades and a minor, many players would just bid 4♠, so 4N is likely to be for the minors. Over partner's 5♣, without special agreement, some players might regard 5♦ as a slam try -- possibly just ♦s.

[miamijd]

Bidding obviously worked out very badly on the actual layout. But in practice, I think it's a tough choice. 4S, X (with equal level conversion if partner bids 5C), and pass all seem like reasonable choices to me.

 

Mike