Can we bid this slam?

[helene_t]

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Playing 15-17 5542 (but would open 1♦ with a balanced hand with four diamonds), Walsh (but apparently this 1♠ rebid doesn't promize an unbalanced hand), responder's 3♣ at second turn is apparently forcing (Pavlicek style or some such, not really worked out in details). 4♣ is available as minorwood from either side. North could also start with a splinter or an inverted raise although that in principle denies a four-card major.

 

Slam is not bad. Clubs 2-1 and either ♠K or ♦A in the right place would give you some 57% and depending on opps' skills and clues from the bidding you may have additional chances, such as for example West leading ♦A (it was matchpoints after all).

 

Should either partner have done something?

 

Would it be easier if we were playing your favorite system?

[cherdano]

I would not get there.

[Winstonm]

I would not get there.

 

And happy to have not done so. :P

[nige1]

Playing 15-17 5542 (but would open 1♦ with a balanced hand with four diamonds), Walsh (but apparently this 1♠ rebid doesn't promize an unbalanced hand), responder's 3♣ at second turn is apparently forcing (Pavlicek style or some such, not really worked out in details). 4♣ is available as minorwood from either side. North could also start with a splinter or an inverted raise although that in principle denies a four-card major.Slam is not bad. Clubs 2-1 and either ♠K or ♦A in the right place would give you some 57% and depending on opps' skills and clues from the bidding you may have additional chances, such as for example West leading ♦A (it was matchpoints after all).Should either partner have done something?Would it be easier if we were playing your favorite system?

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Jasmine ♣

With slow red-suit stops and weak ♣ support, it's hard for South to show slam-enthusiasm.[/hv]

[rmnka447]

Slams from 12 opposite 13 hands are usually pretty difficult to bid even if cold.

 

I don't think I'd get there.

[sfi]

Polish Club would start 1C - 2C (5+, FG); 3C (normally 4+ support) and then it seems we should have a shot. I think the key to getting to a slam is for North to work out there is a 10-card club fit before the partnership passes 3NT. Inverted minors would achieve the same thing, but if your 2C denies a major you are much worse off on this particular hand.

[helene_t]

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Jasmine ♣

With slow red-suit stops and weak ♣ support, it's hard for South to show slam-enthusiasm.[/hv]

I would think that if South has shown 10-12 with just 2-4 clubs, the actual hand with its 4-card support and four controls is quite good in context, no?

[Cyberyeti]

Translating what we play to strong no trump which doesn't entirely work as we are GF if balanced:

 

1♣(4+)-2♣(inverted inv+, not denying 4M)

2♠(nat minimum)-3♥

3N

 

and now N will visualise the S hand with either ♠AK rather than AQ or ♦KQ or A instead of K or ♥KQ and plough on with 4♣.

 

This is a very common theme of "we opened a 2 card club and didn't realise we had that big a fit", it's the price you pay.

[cherdano]

Translating what we play to strong no trump which doesn't entirely work as we are GF if balanced:

 

1♣(4+)-2♣(inverted inv+, not denying 4M)

2♠(nat minimum)-3♥

3N

 

and now N will visualise the S hand with either ♠AK rather than AQ or ♦KQ or A instead of K or ♥KQ and plough on with 4♣.

 

This is a very common theme of "we opened a 2 card club and didn't realise we had that big a fit", it's the price you pay.

I am amazed your North knows that South has no wasted club honours in your 10-card fit!

[nullve]

Using my (nullve-nullve's) system, maybe

 

1♣-2♣ ("NAT or 11-13/17-19/26+ BAL"; "GF, 5+ C, unBAL")

2♦-2♥ (relay; "13-15")

2♠-2N (relay; "4+ H or 1-suited")

3♣-3♥ (relay; "2425 or 4H6C")

3♠-4♦ (relay, willing to bypass 3N opposite 4H6C; 2416 (then 12-14 hcp))

4♠-5♣ (parity key card ask in ♣; odd # of key cards)

6♣-P (looking stupid opposite e.g. Kx-QJxx-J-KQJxxx; ---).

 

Or should Opener sign off in 3N over 3♥?

[Cyberyeti]

I am amazed your North knows that South has no wasted club honours in your 10-card fit!

 

He doesn't, but ♠AK, ♦A is plenty, the fact that he ploughs on over 3N doesn't commit to slam. More awkward at pairs where 5♣ might be disastrous but fine at teams.

[steve2005]

Slams from 12 opposite 13 hands are usually pretty difficult to bid even if cold.

 

I don't think I'd get there.

Only reason to be in slam is if your swinging. This isn't a great slam.

[FelicityR]

Only reason to be in slam is if your swinging. This isn't a great slam.

 

Really!? From the South side of the table it's a brilliant slam, and from the North side it's just short of brilliant. To the poster: I'm apologise for being so direct but your comment is wrong.

[msjennifer]

Seeing all 26 cards,some players can always devise a new system on the table to bid a small slam in clubs which depends on this or that to be well placed. A few super experts with complicated systems may perhaps bid this slam missing the Trump Queen,the Diamond Ace and spade King.

Practically all,I am afraid ,will rest comfortably in 3NT and a few in 5Clubs.

[Tramticket]

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This is not easy.

- Would I bid 3NT now with South? Definitely at pairs, not sure at IMPs.

- Should North carry on, even if south does bid 3NT? Again, the form of scoring might matter, but probably not I suspect.

[xbabarx]

I'm passing 3nt

[Cyberyeti]

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This is not easy.

- Would I bid 3NT now with South? Definitely at pairs, not sure at IMPs.

- Should North carry on, even if south does bid 3NT? Again, the form of scoring might matter, but probably not I suspect.

 

Starting with 1N we have to bid this in awkward fashion, and I suspect we do with ♠Kx instead of Jx, but it's a big step with the actual hand.

 

The auction for us is 1N-2♣-2♠-4♣ slammish, 4♥/5+♣ but if only 5 clubs will be a much bigger hand.

[0deary]

My favourite system: what a lovely question!

 

I’d never reach 6C

 

After the 1S I’d reflect:

 

E/W have ~ 14 points and quite possibly ~9 diamonds but not a peep from them at Match points- what’s going on?

 

Anyway I’m north and I’m going to be the decider on that particular bridge conversation so I will seek information (rather than give information hoping south can make something of that)

 

If I ask partner 4th suit 2D now either she will bid 2/3NT or she can’t, but to save time let’s just look at the 2N reply

 

For 2N I need my partner to have 6 clubs, a diamond on the lead and my Ace hearts= tick. To make 3N partner needs a quick trick too- exactly the Ace spades and not the KQ because the diamond ceiling will otherwise hit our heads. For running 6 clubs I can only really rely on 3 opposite so I need 2-2 or missing Q in finesse, and to rely on AS is by no means a certainty. All in all a bit too much

 

So at match points I think I’ll just retreat to 3C and hope that gives us a decent MPs return. It’ll be great if either of the black suit misbehave- a great MP in prospect

 

(If she essays 3N I’m hoping she has more D stops, more tempi to deal with the black suits, and I’d hope for a half decent MP result for our efforts. If she can’t stop D at all then slightly better chances for 5C but I’d likely still need running Clubs- a solid 3C again looks best, certainly not a speculative 6)

[LBengtsson]

4-6/5 canapé style bid with 2/1 can be possibly bid but how to get to 6♣ is not easy. if south bid 1nt second round, hand strength 12-14 balance given opposed to four card ♠ suit, then bid sequence can be 1♣ - 1♥ - 1nt - 2♦(gf) - 2♠ - 3♣(second suit) - ? but i still see declarer play 3nt, not 5♣/6♣

 

i like inverted minor raise with north hand but cannot do as hold 4 card ♥ suit. so inverted minor should be revised so hand like this can be bid good.

[Cyberyeti]

i like inverted minor raise with north hand but cannot do as hold 4 card ♥ suit. so inverted minor should be revised so hand like this can be bid good.

 

I tend to find that this is an area where strong NT short club suffers.

 

Weak NT, 4 card club means handling a non GF inverted raise that may contain a 4 card major is not that difficult, hence you can bid a lot of hands more accurately. The issue is that if the club is balanced it's 15+ so GF. Almost anything better than minimum goes thru an artificial 2♦ over the invert.

[NickRW]

Playing canapé it might start 1S-2H; 2NT-3C; 4C and then you have a chance

[msjennifer]

Really!? From the South side of the table it's a brilliant slam, and from the North side it's just short of brilliant. To the poster: I'm apologise for being so direct but your comment is wrong.

And that AQxx may well be Axxx and the Diamonds KQx when you stand no chance in 6 C on a spade lead!All in all its a suspicious slam not worth taking a chance in a pairs match points event and only worth at IMP if you are badly down and somehow want to make up.

[hrothgar]

Polish Club would start 1C - 2C (5+, FG); 3C (normally 4+ support) and then it seems we should have a shot. I think the key to getting to a slam is for North to work out there is a 10-card club fit before the partnership passes 3NT. Inverted minors would achieve the same thing, but if your 2C denies a major you are much worse off on this particular hand.

 

Polish Club is a MAFIA based system.

 

Auction would start 1♣ - 1♠

[nekthen]

On a ♦ lead 3N is as shaky as 6♣. If clubs don't break 2-1 you are doomed.

my Acol bidding should go

 

1N 2♣

2♠ 3♣ indicating 4♥ and 5+♣ and GF

4♣ (you cannot deny your club support)

4♦ RKCB

4♠ 1/5

4[N] Q?

5♣ no

 

At this point you do not know about South's Red Kings and you do not know which ace he has. So really cannot bid 6

 

However, maybe after 3♣ 3 of a suit should indicate 4 clubs and lowest ace

 

Now South can bid 3♠ North can see that the stiff diamond makes NT dangerous so temporizes with 4♣. Now 4♥ indicates K It seems better to show this K opposite partners 4 card suit

 

Now maybe North knows enough to bid 6♣

[Winstonm]

IMO, unless you play a system to show a 6-card club suit bidding the slam is impossible - it is the 6-4 trump fit that makes this slam worthwhile. Even then, getting to slam is iffy as in the systems of which I am familiar it is a 2C bid that would show 6 and now bidding room is squeezed.