Fruitful Overcall

[henriqued]

Yesterday, during a friendly tourney, I was sitting in N and got the following Hand:

♠- ♥AKJ106 ♦KQ108 ♣QJ108 and opened 2♣ strong, indiscriminate (Could be 2 strong NT or 2 strong in a suit).

East, on my left overcalled with 4♠;

South (my partner) doubled and West passed.

After a long consideration, I decided to pass...

Lead was from South: 6 of ♣.

This was, of course, a disastrous, catastrophic result of 4♠x + 1 for us!!!

Now, after such an unfortunate event, I would like to ask the members of this forum:

1. Who made the biggest mistake?...

2. Which are the main faults in this bidding?...

3. What would be a more acceptable bidding in this case?

Thank you all who will provide some answers to this topic!

[henriqued]

Sorry, I forgot to add the remaining Hands:

East: ♠AKQ109752; ♥53; ♦J; ♣K3;

South: ♠864; ♥Q84; ♦A97653; ♣6;

West: ♠J3; ♥972; ♦42; ♣A97653

Hope you may help...

[MrAce]

1-Opening this hand 2♣

2-Opening this hand 2♣

3-Not opening 2♣ with this hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Yup, this has every red flag imaginable for opening 2♣, not strong enough, obvious issues if they preempt in spades, 3 suited so difficult to get all suits in play.

 

1♥-(4♠)-P-P-X-P- and now partner will at least put you in 5 of a red suit.

 

I don't like partner's X of 4♠ being for penalties and I don't know if that's what he intended it as.

[gszes]

I agree with the discussion by others that this hand is nowhere near strong enough for a 2c bid. That having been said -- most play a double by responder (after a 2c opening and an overcall) shows a hand with little/no power. If that is your partnership agreement, How can it be reasonable to leave 4sx as a final contract. How do you expect your side to collect anything close to the 4 tricks needed to set them? As a minimum you should expect them to score 7 spades the dia A and the club AK. Once it seems clear 4sx appears to be a non winning move what would be the best way to proceed? IMHO i think you should try 4n representing 2 places to play (cannot possibly be to play else you would almost always have an easy pass of 4sx) (do you see why opening 2c with such a weak hand is a poor idea?). Hopefully the combination of a preemptive 4s bid promising little/no defense and finding a fit anywhere will keep the doubles away. With your hand I would hesitate to x even 5s if the opps bid further.

[ggwhiz]

most play a double by responder (after a 2c opening and an overcall) shows a hand with little/no power.

 

I actually play it the other way, that pass shows a hand like a 2♦ waiting bid (doesn't promise much, just enough for game) and double shows a bust.

 

We also play that a 2♣ opener shows a strong hand, not this thing. Please don't anyone tell me there is a danger of 1♥ getting passed out.

[Cyberyeti]

I actually play it the other way, that pass shows a hand like a 2♦ waiting bid (doesn't promise much, just enough for game) and double shows a bust.

 

I think many people do, we certainly do.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=s864hq84da97653c4&w=sj3h972d42ca97652&n=shakjt6dkqt8cqjt8&e=sakqt9752h53djck3&a=2C(Art)4SXPPP]399|300|

North's 2♣ is an exaggeration but South's double seems reasonable. Perhaps, North could rebid 4N unless partner would regard that as natural.

IMO, North-South were just unlucky

[/hv]

[ahydra]

Double is reasonable facing a real 2C opener but this isn't one. After 1H-(4S)-p-(p) North doubles and South bids 5D - it's close to 6D but there's just no room to find out.

 

Perhaps after the 2C opening N should pull the double to 4N (2 places to play), to emphasise the fact his opening was based on shape rather than raw power. South might well bid 6D now.

 

ahydra

[LBengtsson]

tell the truth. youre BBO online profile say 'advanced' but only amateur or old lady open 2♣ with this hand. opening 2♣ you are not telling truth to partner. mrace so right.

[dtlq1]

Let us start , opening 2♣ is a gamble and not a particular good since IMO you lack an additional ace to do so. From there South is not to blame.I probably would have bid 5♦ but very depending on vulnerability and scoring.

Afterwards you should not let 4♠x play out since you are nowhere near the expected from a 2♣ defense values. So it would have been much better to bid 4NT as 2 places to play and let p decide. No guarantee here ops will not simply bid 5♠ but this is another story. If 4NT would be perceived natural (which it should not) I think 5♥ is the next step in the gamble.

Having said this a 1♥ standard opening would probably bid out the same after 4♠ interference and all depend on your tools and agreements to deal with high level overcalls.

[0deary]

Lovely hand, thank you for showing it

 

I agree with most of previous and might just add some of my reasoning a little more explicit: and suggest some thoughts on a different auction:

 

In my village 2C is powerful: both ~ half the pack or pretty close, and certainly no more than 3 losers: that means it’s 1H for me

 

East’s call now? First thought of course is bang 4S. But, but! When I am Queen of my Realm I know I have the last word (holding the S). And critically: my partner has not had a chance to speak yet. If I bang 4S partner will probably pass and when now if N bids 5H? What now? No, for me a nice quiet 1S for me and see what happens. (If it’s passed out I’m not able to make 4S anyway so why offer an easy plus to opponents?)

 

Looking at all the hands now I’m expecting 2H from S, pass by West and now time for North to think more

 

It’s gone 1H-1S-2H-P-?

 

I like 3!S now very much. Partner: if only you can show some control in C I can now visualise 6H. So 3S for me as North

 

Back to East. My machinations haven't working out too well. With spade shortage I’m really worried they can make 6H. Probably primary fit in H but the often second suit fit, slightly likely they have a secondary D fit now. I don’t regret by 1S but it might look a bit too tame now and I’ve opened a door for them. What to do now? Well stand up: bang the 4S now. I might be slightly down but I smell a good result if they can jut double...

 

South might offer 5C with a void and an Ace, but second round control is very hard now. My golden rule on Souths hand is on Tuesdays I bid 5C. And on Wednesdays I pass

 

No south could X without at least a trump trick: agreeing that helps partner to assess things now. There are other variants at such an awkwardly high level. A 4N?

 

I think the hard one is 1H 1S 2H P 3S 4S P P to North. Mum says leave the 5 level to the others, but heck, she is out just now and she might not complain on such extreme playability and such potentially low defensive power. 5H and hope. And 6H if our team is well behind and we need a cracker result

 

X

 

Bon voyage!

[PhilG007]

The North hand in no way qualifies for a 2♣ opener. I would open a simple 1♥ to get the

ball rolling. If West's 4♠ were passed round to me,I would double for takeout thus focusing on the

minors. South should now bid 5♦ making 12 tricks. It's frustrating to be gazumped out of a slam like this

but it's part and parcel of the game. The opponents are there to obstruct you.

[CodeByJim]

1♦, 4♠, 5♦, Pass, 5♥, Pass, South can pass 5♥ or bid 6♦ or 6♥.

 

Opening ♦ indicates 13+HCP and a weak ♣ suit. She is looking for a major.

 

East's 4♠ bid also shows 13+HCP with 8 card suit.

 

South knows West has a maximum of 8 HCP. Also knows that North is short ♠ and doesn't have a biddable ♣ suit.

Therefor, North has a biddable ♥ suit. Hands fit! Contract will depend on length, not points.

With a 6 card ♦ suit, she knows they have 10 ♦ and at least a strong 7 card ♥ suit with the ability

to cross ruff the black suits.

 

She proposes a 5♦ contract hoping that North can correct by showing a good ♥ suit at the 5 level.

If North corrects, South proposes a contract that will make at either level.

 

If East leads the A♠, N/S make 7.

 

Code

[LBengtsson]

delete

[GrahamJson]

The only system that I can think of where the north hand is a 1D opening is the Blue Club. But it doesn’t show clubs and it would in any case be a 1C opening.

 

As others have said, north is nowhere near a 2C opening. Similarly I don’t like the double which traditionally shows either a bust or some trumps. Either way it warns the 2C opener not to bid on unless he can make the contract on his own. With values, particularly an ace, you pass, forcing, and allow opener to show his suit.

 

You will do well to reach slam after the 4S overcall, which looks clear to me, but after 1H - 4S -P - P - X you should reach 5D or 5H.

[rmnka447]

I don't think opener's hand is a 2 ♣ opener either. And I'm normally a pretty aggressive 2 ♣ bidder with 4 loser Major oriented hands. But this hand could play in any of three suits and the values are as soft as you can get. So my choice would be 1 ♥. You still only have 16 HCP and should have ample ways to show the hand over any response.

 

Unless you have an understanding that the double of 4 ♠ is strictly penalty, I think opener has to bid on. My choice is also 4 NT seemingly indicating two places to play. Whatever responder bids I sit for because it is very likely at least an 8 card fit. I suppose it could get gory if partner shows with 5 ♠ or a hand that is exactly 4=3=3=3, but preempts work sometimes.

 

I'm also not so sure that using pass/double as indicators of values/bust or vice versa is worthwhile when you get to the lofty level of Major suit game or above. Certainly I'd like to hear the thoughts of other forum members on this.

 

Currently, my partnerships use double as value showing, pass as a bust. But from some of the forum discussion here am considering flipping that around with my top partner.

[eagles123]

This topic could've been closed after Timo's reply, 2c was a terrible bid that got what it deserved not much else to say

[SelfGovern]

1♦, 4♠, 5♦, Pass, 5♥, Pass, South can pass 5♥ or bid 6♦ or 6♥.

 

Opening ♦ indicates 13+HCP and a weak ♣ suit. She is looking for a major.

 

[deleted]

 

Ah, right. I don't know what this bidding system is called, but it looks like it was custom made for this hand, and it's going to make bidding a lot of other, more common hands much more difficult.

 

Not to mention, for it to work, your partner has to be playing the same system. So at least when you put a non-standard auction like this out there, say something like, "I play the xxx system, where the auction would go like ..." so that someone who likes it can look it up and attempt to learn it.

 

But, as it's put forth here, no. In no standard system will partner ever expect you to have more hearts than diamonds when you open 1♦.

[msjennifer]

The 2C opening bid on this hand is wrong in any Standard natural system.Perhaps this hand is opened 2H in ACOL system.Acolytes May possibly easily reach the 6D contract.( However this does not mean that one switches to ACOL)

The normal opening shall be 1H.However unless previously discussed it is difficult to bid or pass over 4Sx.If discussed then pass or 4NT will be bid as per that agreement.(4NT will be choose a minor if short in hearts and having a 4 + card minor),