What does "discard" mean?

[RMB1]

If I said no would it stop you? :)

We all know the answer is no.

[mikestar13]

He can be informed that the contract is 4♥, but not that hearts are trumps?

 

If the laws say or imply that, it's plain crazy--if the contract is 4♥, there is no other possibility than hearts being trumps.

[VixTD]

He can be informed that the contract is 4♥, but not that hearts are trumps?

If the laws say or imply that, it's plain crazy--if the contract is 4♥, there is no other possibility than hearts being trumps.

If he asks what the contract is he can be told, by dummy, but dummy may not of his own volition remind declarer what the contract is.

[weejonnie]

If he asks what the contract is he can be told, by dummy, but dummy may not of his own volition remind declarer what the contract is.

He can do so if the Director is present (presumably) but not otherwise

 

LAW 42 - DUMMY’S RIGHTS

A. Absolute Rights

 

1. Dummy is entitled to give information, in the Director’s presence, as to fact or law.

 

(Although I suspect this was only intended to be when the director was called when attention was drawn to an irregularity)

 

(43A1c) Dummy must not participate in the play, nor may he communicate anything about the play to declarer.

 

(41C in part) ... After it is too late to have previous calls restated (see B), declarer or either defender, at his own turn to play, is entitled to be informed as to what the contract is and whether, but not by whom, it was doubled or redoubled. << this is the law that allows declarer to ask what is the contract. There is nothing in it that says he must be told what trumps are.>>

 

It doesn't say that he must ask for the information to be provided but I would have thought that (43A1c) above precludes dummy from telling him. ((HH repeatedly reminds RR what the contract is when he is playing against him)

[barmar]

He can do so if the Director is present (presumably) but not otherwise

 

LAW 42 - DUMMY’S RIGHTS

A. Absolute Rights

 

1. Dummy is entitled to give information, in the Director’s presence, as to fact or law.

 

(Although I suspect this was only intended to be when the director was called when attention was drawn to an irregularity)

I've always understood it to mean that when the director is trying to gather facts, dummy is allowed to speak up.

(43A1c) Dummy must not participate in the play, nor may he communicate anything about the play to declarer.

 

(41C in part) ... After it is too late to have previous calls restated (see B), declarer or either defender, at his own turn to play, is entitled to be informed as to what the contract is and whether, but not by whom, it was doubled or redoubled. << this is the law that allows declarer to ask what is the contract. There is nothing in it that says he must be told what trumps are.>>

"What's trumps?"

"Sorry, can't tell you."

"What's the contract?"

"4 hearts"

"But you can't tell me what suit is trumps?"

"Nope"

"Who's on first base?"

"Yes"

[weejonnie]

I've always understood it to mean that when the director is trying to gather facts, dummy is allowed to speak up.

 

"What's trumps?"

"Sorry, can't tell you."

"What's the contract?"

"4 hearts"

"But you can't tell me what suit is trumps?"

"Nope"

"Who's on first base?"

"Yes"

 

You may laugh - but that very same discussion (verbatim) is quoted in Julian Pottage's "Why you continue to lose at Bridge"

 

Mrs G: What are Trumps?

Mr S: I don't think you can ask that question.

Mr UE: True but my partner CAN ask what the contract is?

Mr S (nodding) : 7♠

[BudH]

Note the definition of discard is important for defenders (in ACBL play) who use odd-even or Lavinthal on each defender’s first “discard”. If a defender leads a singleton to partner’s ace and trumps the return, is that his “first discard”?

[pran]

Note the definition of discard is important for defenders (in ACBL play) who use odd-even or Lavinthal on each defender’s first “discard”. If a defender leads a singleton to partner’s ace and trumps the return, is that his “first discard”?

This discussion reminds me of an episode from many years ago:

 

South was in a 4♥ contract after North had shown 4-4-4-1 with singleton Clubs.

 

For various reasons (unimportant here) I (West) led a club to partner's Ace, and he returned another high club. South followed suit, so did I, and declarer said: "Discard a heart"!

 

South now went into a tank which seemed to last forever, everybody waited patiently, but then suddenly he looked at the table and exclaimed: "Why have you all marked that trick as won by me"?

 

He must have had a temporary lapse and thought that he was playing in NT or something, but play eventually continued after we all had had our laughs.

 

(And South was a very experienced player!)

[barmar]

Note the definition of discard is important for defenders (in ACBL play) who use odd-even or Lavinthal on each defender’s first “discard”. If a defender leads a singleton to partner’s ace and trumps the return, is that his “first discard”?

According to the Bridge World Dictionary, a discard is a plain-suit card other than the suit led, and a plain suit is a suit other than trumps. So when describing your discard system, you're explaining the meaning of cards when neither follow suit nor ruff.

 

The only time "discard" might mean "ruff" is when declarer is confused and uses that verb while also naming the trump suit. This is just a mistake, it doesn't change the definition.

 

If it became a widespread practice, the accepted definition of the word might change in time. In that case, we might also change how we describe defensive carding. Or not -- we live with ambiguity in the way people use the phrase "cue bid" (despite its widespread use for control bids, the BW Dictionary only lists the meaning where you bid an opponent's suit -- they're apparently prescriptivists rather than descriptivists).

[blackshoe]

Note the definition of discard is important for defenders (in ACBL play) who use odd-even or Lavinthal on each defender’s first “discard”. If a defender leads a singleton to partner’s ace and trumps the return, is that his “first discard”?

No.

[BudH]

No.

 

Correct - I had to directly ask ACBL about this 20 years ago. It is not at all well publicized.

[blackshoe]

It's in my dictionary: "(in bridge, whist, and similar card games) play (a card that is neither of the suit led nor a trump), when one is unable to follow suit."