Long Diamonds

[Tramticket]

[hv=pc=n&s=s3h3dkqjt9432c642&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1n(12-14)p]133|200[/hv]

 

Teams of 4 match, all non-vul, spots approximate.

 

Partner deals and opens a weak NT. What is your plan?

 

If you choose to bid 2NT (transfer to diamonds), opponents remain silent and partner bids 3♦, (promising QXX or better in diamonds). What now?

[eagles123]

I would bid 5 DIAMONDS straight away.

[Cyberyeti]

You have no way of knowing if you're making 5 (Axxx, Axxx, Axx, xx) or not making 3 (KQxx, KQx, Axx, xxx is very maximum and you only have 8 tricks). Love all I'd probably pass

[eagles123]

You have no way of knowing if you're making 5 (Axxx, Axxx, Axx, xx) or not making 3 (KQxx, KQx, Axx, xxx is very maximum and you only have 8 tricks). Love all I'd probably pass

 

my concern is not so much that we may or may not make 5 diamonds, it's more that the opponents could easily be making 4M

[Cyberyeti]

my concern is not so much that we may or may not make 5 diamonds, it's more that the opponents could easily be making 4M

 

Agreed, to an extent you're playing your opps here, coming in at the 3 level can be dangerous in this auction, and many bad players won't when they should. You can be going for 500 against nothing here by bidding 5♦. Did partner guarantee 3 diamonds with 3♦ ? or is Ax sufficient ?

 

Are your opps organised enough to know what:

 

Doubling 2N

Bidding an immediate 3♦

Bidding 3M immediately

Passing then bidding 3M

Passing then doubling 3♦

 

mean ?

[Tramticket]

Agreed, to an extent you're playing your opps here, coming in at the 3 level can be dangerous in this auction, and many bad players won't when they should. You can be going for 500 against nothing here by bidding 5♦. Did partner guarantee 3 diamonds with 3♦ ? or is Ax sufficient ?

 

Are your opps organised enough to know what:

 

Doubling 2N

Bidding an immediate 3♦

Bidding 3M immediately

Passing then bidding 3M

Passing then doubling 3♦

 

mean ?

 

Yes, agreed you are playing your opps - this was certainly my approach. I nearly bid 5 ♦ as suggested by Rowland, but I wasn't convinced that they would be going to 4M. Partner surprised my by replying 3♦ showing three diamonds including a top honour. What now? I could make a case for 3NT, 5♦ or pass ...

[ggwhiz]

Without knowing if 5♦ or 3nt is the winner I always choose the one with the biggest upside/chance and that's 3nt.

 

After transferring, silent (so far) opps are surely out of the action and who knows? You might get a lead from KQJx when they could run 1 or 2 other suits.

[steve2005]

Without knowing if 5♦ or 3nt is the winner I always choose the one with the biggest upside/chance and that's 3nt.

If partner has no aces you might take 0 tricks in 3N.

I really don't like my chances of making either 3N or 5♦.

Looks more likely opps are making 4M.

3N might work showing you have cards and scaring opps out of bidding but making doubtful unless North perfect hand.

[LBengtsson]

pass 3♦ plus score better than minus score :)

[rmnka447]

Well, partner can't have enough for slam, so that's out.

 

Maybe, a little consideration of IMP scoring should be considered. Non-Vulnerable, it's about a wash whether or not you bid game or not. If you bid it and it makes, you get 270+ if the opponents don't bid it, nothing if they do. If you bid it and it doesn't make, you give away 280 max, if the opponents settle for a part score. The opponents might get more if somehow they find a double. But your side has at least 18 HCP, so it's pretty hard to see that happening with the opponents having only 22 HCP and no possible trump stack.

 

But consider the implications of partner's bidding and your hand. Since partner by agreement has to have at least ♦ Axx or better, you can have no more than 1 defensive trick in ♦. Additionally you know that your side has no more than 5 cards in either major and maybe less in one or both of them.

 

Do you think the opponents might reopen if 3 ♦ is passed? It seems very possible that they may back in, given the weakness expressed by passing 3 ♦. Unless partner has just the right cards, it's very possible 3 or 4 of a major may make.

 

So, I'm taking an insurance policy out by bidding 5 ♦. If it makes fine. If not, the losses are limited even if 3 NT makes. But more importantly, the opponents can't know if 5 ♦ is bid on strength or not. If 3 ♦ is passed and then we compete to 5 ♦, it's more likely to be doubled.

[Winstonm]

5D now.

[MrAce]

Textbook hand for 5♦

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=s3h3dkqjt9432c642&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1n(12-14)p]133|200|

Teams of 4 match, all non-vul, spots approximate.

Partner deals and opens a weak NT. What is your plan?

If you choose to bid 2NT (transfer to diamonds), opponents remain silent and partner bids 3♦, (promising QXX or better in diamonds). What now?[/hv]

I rank

1. 3N = NAT. Might even make when partner has say ♠ A x x ♥ K Q x ♦ A x ♣ x x x x x or ♠ A Q x ♥ A Q x ♦ x x x ♣ J T x x
2. 5♦ = PRE. More pre-emptive than 3N but less likely to make.
3. 2N = TRF. Invites interference and leaves you not much the wiser.
4. Pass = NAT. Masochistic.

[msjennifer]

Since it is a weak No Trump opening my bid (as we play it) is 3D a highly invitational yet non forcing bid.

[Tramticket]

I bid 2NT (transfer) and then gambled on 3NT, when partner showed AXX in diamonds. Our opponents remained remarkably silent, showing no interest until it came to RHO in the pass out seat who contemplated for ages, asked lots of questions about our system - and then passed!

 

Our team-mates were more bullish and bid their spade game, followed by a double of the opposing 5♦ "sacrifice".

 

Partner held AXXX, AXXX, AXX, JX (full marks to Cyberyeti for predicting - post #3). 5♦ made for -550 and we drifted one off in 3NT when the opps cashed the first five clubs. :(

 

I think that 5♦ straight off must be right, as several have said. I was going to bid this but changed my mind when I sensed that LHO didn't seem to have much interest in the auction. :(

[Tramticket]

I rank

1. 3N = NAT. Might even make when partner has say ♠ A x x ♥ K Q x ♦ A x ♣ x x x x x

 

3NT might be six or seven off if partner doesn't have the ace of diamonds. Even at 50s this isn't great (although a bit better than an opposing game contract in a major).

[nige1]

Partner held AXXX, AXXX, AXX, JX (full marks to Cyberyeti for predicting - post #3).

3 bullets and a ♣ shortage but at MPs, I would still have preferred your 3N.

[aawk]

Any action is a gamble (pass/3nt/5♦) but playing for IMPs I would bid 3nt with the argument if it smells like game bid game.

[GrahamJson]

I must admit that I would have bid 3NT immediately. If it doesn’t make it might well be a good save against a major suit game. Of course if confidentiality doubled I would do a runner.

[cleveritis]

There is never a RIGHT answer on these weird hands - the percentage bid at love all is 3N. They are very likely cold for game - and we might even make +430 if they make the wrong lead/ switch. They need to have worked out what a cold double of 3N means, what 4m means, what 4M can or can't be... it is VERY hard... What do you bid holding AQJxx, KQtx, x, Axx over 1N - 3N by opps... partner leads heart from Kxx, J9xxxx, xx,xx... unlucky! if it goes double pass pass, I will bid 5 diamonds...

[miamijd]

There is never a RIGHT answer on these weird hands - the percentage bid at love all is 3N. They are very likely cold for game - and we might even make +430 if they make the wrong lead/ switch. They need to have worked out what a cold double of 3N means, what 4m means, what 4M can or can't be... it is VERY hard... What do you bid holding AQJxx, KQtx, x, Axx over 1N - 3N by opps... partner leads heart from Kxx, J9xxxx, xx,xx... unlucky! if it goes double pass pass, I will bid 5 diamonds...

 

I'm not so sure that the percentage bid is 3NT, even at teams (MPs it's an obvious 5D bid over 1NT). There are hands where 3NT makes and 5D doesn't, and there are hands where 5D makes and 3NT doesn't. But on the hands where 5D fails, it won'b do so by much. On the hands where 3NT fails, it could be down 5 rather easily. Going -50 rather than -250 does save some IMPs.

 

I think 5D directly over 1NT has to be reasonable. No need to get fancy here.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[cleveritis]

I think the worst bids are 3d pre-emptive because they can make light take out double, or 2n and pass 3d or complete to 3d over 3c because again - now marginal 5512 or 4513 can easily come in.

[mcphee]

I find it difficult for anyone to consider passing with a known 11 card fit, possibly 12, in addition to they can take a lot of tricks some where. It is even possible one of the opps will appreciate its their hand. 5D is clear.

[Zelandakh]

A little side question as I think most posters are working within a "3 or 5" framework. If you had the 4 level available, either through a Texas-style 4♣ puppet or just a natural, weak 4♦ response, would you prefer to use it or stick with your original choice?

[msjennifer]

There is never a RIGHT answer on these weird hands - the percentage bid at love all is 3N. They are very likely cold for game - and we might even make +430 if they make the wrong lead/ switch. They need to have worked out what a cold double of 3N means, what 4m means, what 4M can or can't be... it is VERY hard... What do you bid holding AQJxx, KQtx, x, Axx over 1N - 3N by opps... partner leads heart from Kxx, J9xxxx, xx,xx... unlucky! if it goes double pass pass, I will bid 5 diamonds...

When one holds the major two suiter we bid 4D ,take out in majors with longer spades.Reverse the majors and the bid is now 4C,take out in majors with longer hearts.