Disputed hesitation

[barmar]

The new regulation specifies that there will be no warning at all. A skip-bidder's LHO is nonetheless required in theory to pause for about ten seconds before making a call. It doesn't happen now, and it won't happen next month or thereafter. And nothing will be done about such BITs. That won't be anything new, of course. :( :blink:

In my experience there are two classes of players:

 

1. Players who hesitate, as required, regardless of whether the STOP card was used.

2. Players who don't hesitate, even when the STOP card is used (unless, of course, they have something to think about).

 

So the STOP card was ineffective in getting people to hesitate. The problem ACBL is reacting to is players using the STOP card for the wrong reasons: to alert partner (rather than LHO) and to distinguish between different meanings of jump bids (the bid is weak when they use the STOP card, strong when they don't, or vice versa).

[Zelandakh]

In my experience there are two classes of players:

 

1. Players who hesitate, as required, regardless of whether the STOP card was used.

2. Players who don't hesitate, even when the STOP card is used (unless, of course, they have something to think about).

You do not over there have:

3. Players who stare at the Stop card looking slightly annoyed and highly bored with their hand holding (or hovering over) the Pass card in the box until the Stop card is removed?

[WellSpyder]

You do not over there have:

3. Players who stare at the Stop card looking slightly annoyed and highly bored with their hand holding (or hovering over) the Pass card in the box until the Stop card is removed?

Or:

4 Players who wait until the stop card is removed, then ask about the meaning of the bid and start thinking?

[Vampyr]

Or:

4 Players who wait until the stop card is removed, then ask about the meaning of the bid and start thinking?

 

That cracks me up.

[VixTD]

I am fairly sure Nigel is referring to pran. Has another "top director" weighed in on this thread?

That's OK then. Disagreement with Pran is more the norm than an exception, nothing to worry about.

[barmar]

You do not over there have:

3. Players who stare at the Stop card looking slightly annoyed and highly bored with their hand holding (or hovering over) the Pass card in the box until the Stop card is removed?

 

 

Or:

4 Players who wait until the stop card is removed, then ask about the meaning of the bid and start thinking?

The Stop card is normally removed immediately, so neither of these apply.

 

Once in a while I've seen someone start going for the box, then notice that there was a skip bid (or maybe the skip bidder does something to remind them), and put on the brakes. Again, missing the point.

[pran]

The Stop card is normally removed immediately, so neither of these apply.

Depends on the jurisdiction.

In Norway the STOP period begins when STOP is faced and ends when it is removed.

However, LHO is always entitled to a 10 seconds pause even if the STOP card is removed earlier (or not used although required).

 

Just showing the STOP card and then immediately removing it is a violation of our regulations.

[nige1]

Depends on the jurisdiction.

In Norway the STOP period begins when STOP is faced and ends when it is removed.

However, LHO is always entitled to a 10 seconds pause even if the STOP card is removed earlier (or not used although required).

Just showing the STOP card and then immediately removing it is a violation of our regulations.

I like Norwegian Stop-card regulations.

 

Especially the idea of deploying the Stop-card in a variety of tempo-sensitive contexts.

 

I agree with Vampyr that the rules should stipulate that you place your Stop-card on LHO's bidding cards, and remove it after about 10 seconds. A "timer" would be better. Best of all would be a "chess-clock" built into a bridge-mate or tablet.

 

I guess the ACBL has put the kibosh on any sensible universal protocol

[barmar]

Depends on the jurisdiction.

I know. But I thought we were talking about why ACBL is getting rid of the Stop card, so only the common practice here was relevant to my post.

[blackshoe]

LHO has far more important matters to consider than maintaining a pause.

Maybe so, but so what? He still has to follow the regulation. In theory, anyway.

[blackshoe]

Depends on the jurisdiction.

In Norway the STOP period begins when STOP is faced and ends when it is removed.

However, LHO is always entitled to a 10 seconds pause even if the STOP card is removed earlier (or not used although required).

 

Just showing the STOP card and then immediately removing it is a violation of our regulations.

And not doing it that way is a violation of ours, until next month, anyway.

 

Barry points out that the purpose of the change is to deal with those who use the stop card for illegal purposes, like distinguishing between two strength ranges. Well and good, but the problem of fast tempo breaks still exists, and it is not be addressed by this change.

[pran]

LHO has far more important matters to consider than maintaining a pause.

Maybe so, but so what? He still has to follow the regulation. In theory, anyway.

So our regulation recognizes that fact and requires the skip-bidder to take care of the timing while LHO may concentrate on his own call.

[Vampyr]

Maybe so, but so what? He still has to follow the regulation. In theory, anyway.

 

Yes, pran is simply pointing out how poor this regulation is.

[Vampyr]

And not doing it that way is a violation of ours, until next month, anyway.

 

Barry points out that the purpose of the change is to deal with those who use the stop card for illegal purposes, like distinguishing between two strength ranges. Well and good, but the problem of fast tempo breaks still exists, and it is not be addressed by this change.

 

No indeed, and changing this regulation (other than requiring the Stop card to be held out by the bidder) is not a very good way to deter cheaters.

[blackshoe]

So our regulation recognizes that fact and requires the skip-bidder to take care of the timing while LHO may concentrate on his own call.

 

Yes, pran is simply pointing out how poor this regulation is.

Oh, I don't disagree that it's poor, and that Norway's and England's are better. Worse, this change attempts to deal with perceived (by the C&C Committee I guess) problems while ignoring the elephant in the room. I suppose the ACBL may get around to that elephant some day. :ph34r:

[barmar]

Well and good, but the problem of fast tempo breaks still exists, and it is not be addressed by this change.

Since almost all players ignored the Stop card (either never pausing unless they had something to think about, or always pausing regardless of whether the card was used), neither would maintaining the status quo. Since the Stop card wasn't serving the intended purpose, and was instead being used inappropriately by some players, they decided to solve that second problem, since it's more tractable.