GIBug - ignore K points when AKx opposite splinter

[virgosrock]

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=pn%7Cvirgosrock%2CLUCKY_HUMAN%2CRobotN%2CRobotE%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C2S567AH247TAD36KC3%2CS38QH39D279TJC568%2CS249JKH56JD48C9KA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard+4%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7CMajor+suit+opening+--+5%2B+%21S%3B+11-21+HCP%3B+12-22+total+points+%7Cmb%7C2C%7Can%7CTwo-level+overcall+--+5%2B+%21C%3B+10%2B+HCP%3B+11-18+total+points+%7Cmb%7C4C%21%7Can%7CSplinter+--+1-+%21C%3B+4%2B+%21S%3B+13%2B+total+poin%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7C5%2B+%21S%3B+11%2B+HCP%3B+12-17+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C5H%7Can%7CCue+bid+--+1+%21C%3B+1%2B+%21D%3B+4%2B+%21S%3B+no+%21CA%3B+n%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C6S%7Can%7C5%2B+%21S%3B+13-17+total+points+%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpg%7C%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpg%7C%7C%0A%0A]399|300[/hv]

 

I am NOT seeking a critique on whether I should try for slam. That is my business.

 

I AM questioning jump to 6S with 11 HCP and AKX opposite known stiff/void. afaiac subtract 3 HCP/6 points for cK.

 

vrock

[steve2005]

duplicate

[steve2005]

AKx opposite shortness isn't that bad you get 1 or 2 pitches

KQx or KJx would be bad

 

If rest of hand was worthy Gib has 6♠ bid

 

Characterizing 6♠ as a jump is ridiculous there is no bidding room after 5♥ then 5♠ would be sign-off 6♠ slam and anything else is for grand

[virgosrock]

duplicate

 

Hi steve2005 you have said "duplicate" before. Does this mean this issue is a repeat? How do I check if this is a repeat if I have just joined the forum?

 

thanks

vrock

[johnu]

AKx opposite shortness isn't that bad you get 1 or 2 pitches

KQx or KJx would be bad

 

If rest of hand was worthy Gib has 6♠ bid

 

Characterizing 6♠ as a jump is ridiculous there is no bidding room after 5♥ then 5♠ would be sign-off 6♠ slam and anything else is for grand

 

While AKx is guaranteed to produce 1 or 2 pitches in the other side suits, a lot of the time, those pitches are totally worthless as in this hand. The North hand has basically no help in the red suits, and only average trumps. South has bypassed diamonds so you may be off 2 quick tricks in that suit. I agree that 6♠ isn't ridiculous. It's merely hopeless.

[steve2005]

Hi steve2005 you have said "duplicate" before. Does this mean this issue is a repeat? How do I check if this is a repeat if I have just joined the forum?

 

thanks

vrock

means my post was a duplicate. sometimes you accidently hit submit twice and is posted twice. is possible for topics too

[steve2005]

While AKx is guaranteed to produce 1 or 2 pitches in the other side suits, a lot of the time, those pitches are totally worthless as in this hand. The North hand has basically no help in the red suits, and only average trumps. South has bypassed diamonds so you may be off 2 quick tricks in that suit. I agree that 6♠ isn't ridiculous. It's merely hopeless.

"If rest of hand was worthy Gib has 6♠ bid". A clearly balanced 12 points isn't likely enough as opener even if you made AK♣ into A♦ & K♥.

 

There was a hand in recent regional where bidding went 1♠-2N-3♥ (shortness) - 4♠ at a lot of tables. As people were downgrading their 14/15 points with AK♥ but the rest of their hand was suitable so people missed easy slam.

[manudude03]

I would put a lot more blame on South on this hand. What was 5♥ meant to achieve when GIB signed off over the splinter? I may well have bid 6S myself with the North hand if I was feeling lucky. The North hand could have been KJxxx QJx xx KQx after all, and the actual hand is a lot better.

[johnu]

I would put a lot more blame on South on this hand. What was 5♥ meant to achieve when GIB signed off over the splinter? I may well have bid 6S myself with the North hand if I was feeling lucky. The North hand could have been KJxxx QJx xx KQx after all, and the actual hand is a lot better.

 

Your sample hand has 2 likely useful cards outside of clubs (♠K and ♥Q(J)) The OP hand only has 1 clearly useful card (♠K) outside of clubs. It's not at all clear which hand is better

[Stephen Tu]

Yeah 6s is no more insane than 5h was. It's pretty hard to teach cue bidding to humans let alone bots, because so much depends on context of previous auction, and negative inferences about cues not made. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for delicate cue bidding judgment from the bots. I'd just be happy if they improved the first bid after a splinter, not trying nt with ace empty, and doing something encouraging with no wastage.

[sfi]

North has two keycards and has already rejected a splinter slam try. Accepting a second try looks normal.

 

The less said about 5H, the better.

[cloa513]

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I am NOT seeking a critique on whether I should try for slam. That is my business.

 

I AM questioning jump to 6S with 11 HCP and AKX opposite known stiff/void. afaiac subtract 3 HCP/6 points for cK.

 

vrock

If you were playing with human then repeated cue suggests an overpowered hand- who knows what GIB programming is for this situation but it probably is very strongly forced to 6 Spades minimum- it has an ace more that was asked for.

[johnu]

North has two keycards and has already rejected a splinter slam try. Accepting a second try looks normal.

 

IMHO, if South just needed 2 key cards for slam, they would have checked for key cards with RKC. Since North is a GIB, that's probably to subtle a point for South to bid like that.