xx1943 Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 [hv=d=w&v=e&s=s983h1084d1054cj972]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] 2♣ -- 2♠ -3NT - 6♠ ----- X --- -- Which suit wants partner from you to lead with double? What is your lead without double? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 explain the bidding, please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 OK.............I'm a fish, but it still sounds like a request for a club lead to me. Partner can have club honors but insufficient club length to have dbl'd the 2C opener and be able to handle defending 2CX or XX. Or a potential club trick and an ace where the issue is needing to set up club trick before entry is used up. I know,..wrong again! The point is, partner went out of his way to tell me to stop and reconsider something different before making what might have been a natural, normal opening lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 X is lightner. Since dummy hasn't bid a suit I think I'm supposed to lead my longest one. I'll try a club unless 3N showed a solid minor or something in which case I'd lead a diamond (since thats probably dummies solid minor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 i would lead the ♣7 with or without the x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 With the double - a ♣. Very possible they have 9 clubs between the hands. Without the double? Anything but a club! I'd put my red 4's in my right hand and shuffle them around a few times and lead one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Hmmm.So far the votes seem to be unanimouse. That concerns me. I recall a relatively recent lead poll where the vast majority voted for one lead against a doubled slam, and it turned out that this particular lead gave declarer the contract. If the recommended or suggested lead were one that so many would agree on, then would it get posted as a lead problem? I am starting to become suspicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I think double is just a plain penalty double, not Lightner. 6S seems to be bit of a shot in the dark and pard is trying to capitalize on that, seeing that his honors rate to be well placed after the strong hand. With this in mind, I'm going to try and lead something passive. Hearts are the best passive lead (strongest suit), so I'll do that. In any case not clubs, which can easily blow a trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 If you're not trying to jolt partner and communicate something special via the double (e.g. lightner), then why dbl. If you pass, you have a middle: heads you win, tails you tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 if X is "just penalty" it must be based on 2 100 % trump tricks in which case my lead cannot matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 yeah, what justin said.. the x either:1) meant something, or2) didn't if 1), try to figure out what it meant and do that... if 2), ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeless Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I'm guessing lightner and I'm leading a club - dummy's first bid suit. Ready with with "Sp thought x was lightner if it fails" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 My lead is a club with the double. If it's wrong I'm not losing any sleep over it. Without the double, I put a spade on the table. I say, when in doubt, whip out Occam's razor and presume the most straightforward explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 if X is "just penalty" it must be based on 2 100 % trump tricks in which case my lead cannot matter. Looking at the bidding and my holding, I find it rather hard that pard has 2 trump tricks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 if X is "just penalty" it must be based on 2 100 % trump tricks in which case my lead cannot matter. Looking at the bidding and my holding, I find it rather hard that pard has 2 trump tricks... As do I. That's why it's lightner and not "just penalty" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I agree double is lightner. What suit was I most likely not going to lead? Why a club... because partner had a chance to double 2♣ as lead directing and didn't. Without the double, I would have tried a red suit. With the double, the one suit I wasn't going to lead (clubs), now becomes the one I will. I suspect LHO has long suit of clubs for his 3NT and partner is ruffing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Ben, I'm sure you don't play a double of a 2♣ opener as lead directing, as most of the posters around here don't. And, even if it was, why would you do it with a void? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 A club... I wonder why this is a problem.Without the double I'd probably lead a red suit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Ben, I'm sure you don't play a double of a 2♣ opener as lead directing, as most of the posters around here don't. And, even if it was, why would you do it with a void? I woudl not do it with a void. Yes, I play 2♣-DBL as clubs, although odds are not good my partner will be on lead. IT allows me to compete when I have stuff in clubs because ot bid 3♣ is well, to risky. No I don't double 2♣ with a void. Ever hear of a card with two white "x"'s on it. I think you misunderstood me. PArtner didn't double 2♣ that is point one, He did make a lightner double of 6♠ that is point 2. There is not a lot of differentce between my lenght in the red suits and clubs. If partenr is void, he could be void in any of those. But since like luis I was going to lead a red suit before the double (for a lot of reasons), not I amgoing to lead a club for two... LHO didn't bid 3NT on running hearts, so he probably has a lot of clubs if he is long in a suit. If he is balanced, then surely partner is not void, and has two winners. If WEST is long is a suit, it rates to be clubs, because if he was long in diamnods partner MIGHT have been able to double 2♣ to show clubs. Also partner knows I am less likely to lead a club on this auction than any other suit. If he was void in diamonds, he might pass and hope that is the red suit I pick (ok, he can double to hope I workout where he is short)... but in this later case, there was a chance partner would have (again) clubs sufficient to double (we know partner is short in spades, we think he is short in one of the minors,,, ). Wrong headed? Maybe, but i stick with the plan. I am actually with Lus and numerous other posters, a club here is clear cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 getting more concerned.vote so far seems to be about 7 to 1 for a club lead why is this hand being surveyed? I have my suspicion that the doubler had 2 red aces and doubled because he was going teach that 6 spade bidder a lesson and get double penalty bonus points (more imps/ "greedy"), but partner, instead, interpreted it as lightner, led a club, and presented declarer with 12 tricks before the defense could get two. And then the doubler yelled at opening leader, made typical comments, and abruptly left the table, never acknowledging that he/she had triggered the disaster by doubling because P was leading a red card without the double. If this scenario was indeed the case, then I would love to see the chat log that followed (to check for spelling errors, vocabulary, grammar, 4-letter words, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriorKnowledge Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I lead a club, my longest side suit. The club lead is also implied by the dbl. If one of my red suits was 5+ cards, I might lead that instead. If partner has 2 tricks only if I make a "safe" lead, then the dbl is a poor dbl and I need a new partner. Even so, it is unlikely that leading away from J9xx is going to cost a trick that partner was hoping for. Without the dbl, I would probably lead a trump as the safest lead. I'd hate to lead a red suit and catch partner with Kxxx while declarer had AQ9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 getting more concerned.vote so far seems to be about 7 to 1 for a club lead why is this hand being surveyed? I have my suspicion that the doubler had 2 red aces and doubled because he was going teach that 6 spade bidder a lesson and get double penalty bonus points (more imps/ "greedy"), but partner, instead, interpreted it as lightner, led a club, and presented declarer with 12 tricks before the defense could get two. And then the doubler yelled at opening leader, made typical comments, and abruptly left the table, never acknowledging that he/she had triggered the disaster by doubling because P was leading a red card without the double. If this scenario was indeed the case, then I would love to see the chat log that followed (to check for spelling errors, vocabulary, grammar, 4-letter words, etc.) If people really double with 2 red aces, they should be shot. A ) A random jump to slam often indicates a void. Even if it doesnt its doubtful that a guy off alot of aces would just jump to slam. If he does have a void theres a good chance he will XX. B ) You are turning your expected value of +50 into +100 IF your aces cash. WOWWWWWWW big deal. C ) The X may induce pard to make a bad lead, causing you to not get your aces when you would have otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Justin: I know that.I'm just saying that, to adulterate a song, "Nobody knows the doubles I've seen. Nobody knows but..............." And nobody knows the number of times I've seen the poor unfortunate, learned player, whose reasoning was exactly as you just posted, get reamed by his self-righteous, soon-to-be ex-partner for making the only lead to give the contract away when he (so he thought) had the hand set in his hand if only partner hadn't made such a "stoopid" lead. I think you now see my point. That's why the longer the actually hand doesn't get posted, the more suspicious I'm becoming about what's going on with this hand? Please note that I posted leading a club when this thread first appeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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