How do you bid this grand slam?

[Cyberyeti]

Do you mean to suggest that responder can not have AQX in spades when he responds 2C over a 1D opening? is he going to bid 2S over a rebid Of 2D? If so,it is stretching far. unless he knows that you hold a good five card spade suit!

 

No, read what I said, you won't play in a 6-1 fit with a 5-4 fit available, you may miss a 5-3, what I was saying was that if you have 5+♣/4♠ and are not going to bid again on a 1♦-2♣-2♦ auction, you respond 1♠ instead, but you could play in a 5-1 spade fit with a 6-4 diamond fit available if you open 1♠ and partner responds 2♥.

[nekthen]

Why has South shown 65? Assuming 2H did not promise diamond support, North never denied having a heart stopper.

Hence, South just makes a forced waiting bid.

If 2H is just a general force, than 3NT over 2S showes the hand, a hand too strong for a direct 3NT bid.

I am willing to accept a seq. that makes a 2NT bid over 2S, ..., 2NT is certainly GF, and than you may proceed

the way you described.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

South has many available bids. The "say nothing bid" is 3♦, therefore 3♠ shows a 5th ♠ and assuming normal natural bidding 6♦

[miamijd]

Your argument that reaching grand slam is easy is based on knowing that 3nt was bid with a lot of points.

 

No, it wasn't. 3NT is an awful bid. Start with 2H.

 

If in this bidding sequence 3nt shows 18+ HCP you are right but that is a wasted agreement because how often will this specific situation happens.

 

It doesn't. And it shouldn't be bid.

 

If 1 hold Q JT9xx Jxxx Axx I would not bid 1nt but wait for a re openings double from partner (or support with 2♦ if you think the hand is not strong enough for that) and in this case he would not do that and bid ♠ to show a uneven pattern and then I would support ♦ with a jump and your partner knows you had a penalty pass for ♥ and good diamond support.

 

Huh? My response was to your suggestion that 1S is the proper opening. You would pass a 1S opener with the following 8-count:

 

Q JT9xx Jxxx Axx ?

 

I sure hope not. I didn't mean after a 2H overcall; I meant in an uncontested auction. The point was to illustrate that a 1D opener can work better on these sorts of hands, provided you have the right agreement with partner.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[aawk]

Huh? My response was to your suggestion that 1S is the proper opening. You would pass a 1S opener with the following 8-count:

 

Q JT9xx Jxxx Axx ?

 

I sure hope not. I didn't mean after a 2H overcall; I meant in an uncontested auction. The point was to illustrate that a 1D opener can work better on these sorts of hands, provided you have the right agreement with partner.

 

Cheers,

Mike

 

 

Ok I misunderstood,

 

so you mean what to bid after 1♠ - pass - 1nt - pass - 2♦ - pass - ??

 

I would bid 3♦ being a invite with 8-9 HCP (being a agreement because 2♦ has a range from 11-17).

 

If I hold 10-11 with the same hand only 2nt as invite available.

[hamish32]

3NT by responder is awful.

 

We have the agreement that 2NT shows 4 card support in an invite + hand. While 2!H is an invite + with 3 cards.

 

Over 2!H opener can bid 2!S this must show 5 since 2!H denied 4 card M.

 

Now grand should be no problem. I prefer 7!D to 7!S

[Cyberyeti]

3NT by responder is awful.

 

We have the agreement that 2NT shows 4 card support in an invite + hand. While 2!H is an invite + with 3 cards.

 

Over 2!H opener can bid 2!S this must show 5 since 2!H denied 4 card M.

 

Now grand should be no problem. I prefer 7!D to 7!S

 

Why doesn't 2♠ simply show a 4243 minimum hand with no heart stop ? (if you play strong NT)

[hamish32]

Why doesn't 2♠ simply show a 4243 minimum hand with no heart stop ? (if you play strong NT)

 

We do play weak NT. However when playing strong NT I would play the same methods here and with 4S I would prefer X than 2H and with 5S I would bid 1S rather than 2H. So opener does not need to worry about a 4 card S holding once responder bids 2H - getting the major across has to come before supporting D. This means 2S by opener after the 2H limit raise shows 5 cards in S.

 

1D - (1H) - 2H - (P)

2S - (P) - 3NT- (P)

4C - (P) - 4D - (P)

5H - (P) - 5S - (P)

5NT- (P) - 7S

 

2H limit or better 3D

2S 5 cards in S

3NT serious slam try in spades (opener has 65 shape)

4C/D first or second round cue

5H exclusion blackwood

5S 3 or 0

5NT do you have the Q (responder must have 3 not zero to bid 3NT)

7S yes I have the Q

[Cyberyeti]

We do play weak NT. However when playing strong NT I would play the same methods here and with 4S I would prefer X than 2H and with 5S I would bid 1S rather than 2H. So opener does not need to worry about a 4 card S holding once responder bids 2H - getting the major across has to come before supporting D. This means 2S by opener after the 2H limit raise shows 5 cards in S.

 

 

The shape I gave was a poor example, how about AJxx, 5432, AQx, xx where we'd certainly bid 2♥ rather than X as our takeout doubles tend to be both unbid rather than just spades.

[hamish32]

The shape I gave was a poor example, how about AJxx, 5432, AQx, xx where we'd certainly bid 2♥ rather than X as our takeout doubles tend to be both unbid rather than just spades.

 

I don't think X showing both unbid is the best treatment. I know many people play this way however a more modern treatment is that X shows 4 cards in the unbid major. So with this example hand I would still X.

 

6D and 5S is such an uncommon hand where as we regularly find a 44 fit if we stretch to X any time we have 4S.

[Cyberyeti]

I don't think X showing both unbid is the best treatment. I know many people play this way however a more modern treatment is that X shows 4 cards in the unbid major. So with this example hand I would still X.

 

6D and 5S is such an uncommon hand where as we regularly find a 44 fit if we stretch to X any time we have 4S.

 

Both treatments have their merits, it may make a difference that 1m openers will be 4+ card suits for me.

 

Exactly, 6♦/5♠ is rare enough that I don't make too many concessions to it in my system.

[pescetom]

What is so wrong with 2H over 1H? Yes, in theory, it suggests 4D, but we do have AJx in diamonds, and if partner is minimum, he's going to be looking for NT anyway.

 

After that, opener ought to recognize that if his partner has a limit raise in diamonds, his hand is absolutely HUGE. It's a 4-loser hand, so if partner has no H waste, even a limit raise should offer a good play for slam (Qx Jxxx Axxx Axx and six is icy; even with xx QJxx Axxx Axx it's still on a hook).

 

Opener needs to show that with a jump to 4H, showing a H void. Forget about spades. If partner had four of them, he'd have made a negative X. If you're going for slam, a 10-card suit (partner has shown 4) beats a possible 8-card suit.

 

After that, a reasonable auction playing very standard 2/1 methods would be:

 

1D (1H) 2H

4H(1) 4NT(2)

5D(3) 5H(4)

5S(5) 5NT(6)

6C(7) 7D(8)

 

(1) Good hand; h void; at least five diamonds and likely 6 (could be 4054)

(2) key card

(3) one key (you've already shown the H void)

(4) Queen ask

(5) Qd and Ks

(6) I'm interested in a grand; what else can you tell me? (Note: not "pick a slam" here; diamonds is agreed)

(7) I have the Kc; does that help?

(8) Sure does

 

Excellent analysis Mike.

We are not experts yet but I would have bid 2H and I'm pretty sure my partner would have shown the void.

My only doubt is about the necessity of steps (6) and (7): I think I would have called 7D after (5).

I have 18 points, I know opps have the useless AKQh which is 9 points, leaving 13 points between opps and my partner who opened in first seat.

He can be a bit erratic after a beer, but not enough to open 1D with 10 points and no AJ, so I figure the opps with at most the black Jacks.

Or am I missing something here?

[Fluffy]

[hv=pc=n&s=skj975hdkqt965ck5&w=s32hak875d4ct8732&n=saqthjt62daj3caq4&e=s864hq943d872cj96&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d1h]399|300|...over to you[/hv]

 

If North bids 3NT, I bid 4♠ as South. I would now take 4NT by North as key-card agreeing ♠

 

Easy to bid 6♠, but can you bid seven?

 

D.

 

Bidding using my system:

 

1♠-2NT

3♥-3♠

4♥-4NT

........7♠

 

Bidding using what I think is your system:

 

1♦-(1♥)-2♣

2♦-3♦

4♥-4♠

4NT....

.......

 

7♦

 

 

Bidding using your first 2 bids:

 

1♦-(1♥)-3NT-all pass

[MrAce]

 

Easy to bid 6♠, but can you bid seven?

 

D.

 

Not sure to be honest.

 

 

If North bids 3NT, I bid 4♠ as South. I would now take 4NT by North as key-card agreeing ♠

D.

 

 

North bidding 3 NT is much more serious problem for this partnership than missing this grandslam, or how the auction goes on from there, imho.