Who do you bid this hand?

[kontoleon]

[hv=pc=n&s=s943h64d875ct7654&w=sk8765hk9753d6c83&n=sahaqjt2daqjt2caq&e=sqjt2h8dk943ckj92]399|300[/hv]

 

No mater who is the deler All rest player have no opening possible hand.(ok If someboby disagree with this lets tell that deler is N)

 

North have 24HCP with 5 H and 5 D, but south have only 2 H 0HCP

We have no good mans! S is out of question,NT we hane Only 1s H is possible with 7 card fit and D we have 8 card fit but is minor

 

According the BBO Advance1.3 N sould opening 2♣ pass 2♥(totally negative hand) pass and now what? Even if partener have classic system with answer 2♦, is still possible to End this Bid below 3NT?

 

Sorry from this messege if is long or spam. This hand is totally random draw on friendly house game

[Cyberyeti]

Don't judge others by your standards, I would open the W hand first or 3rd but mostly you're right about nobody opening the other hands. This sort of hand is a deathtrap and nobody will come out of it well.

 

N will think a 4333 yarborough will make game, so will bid one and it will fail.

[rmnka447]

Playing 2 ♣ with 2 ♦ waiting and cheapest suit 2nd negative, you might have the following auction:

 

2 ♣ - 2 ♦ (waiting)

2 ♥ - 2 ♠ (2nd negative)

3 ♦ - 3 ♥

Pass

 

3 ♦ is still a force, so the weak hand has to bid something. 3 ♥ fulfills that obligation and is about as weak a bid as possible.

[croquetfan]

2D waiting is a very clumsy system that makes it hard to stop in this sort of position.

if you can bid number of points or number of controls over 2C it is easy to stop in 2H.

[Cyberyeti]

2D waiting is a very clumsy system that makes it hard to stop in this sort of position.

if you can bid number of points or number of controls over 2C it is easy to stop in 2H.

 

And you'll stop in 2♥ opposite xxx, 9xxx, 9xx, xxx or xxx, x, 98xxx, xxx where game is excellent, the hand is just too good to stop

[croquetfan]

not necessarily. This hand is one of those rare enough to jump invite.

[croquetfan]

actually the hand you show, you didn't need to jump: partner holding 4 card support over your 4 loser hand should invite also, even with a Yarborough as you already know he has no controls.

[The_Badger]

2D waiting is a very clumsy system that makes it hard to stop in this sort of position.

if you can bid number of points or number of controls over 2C it is easy to stop in 2H.

 

I don't normally get rude on this forum, or opinionated at best, but that it is rubbish, in my view. A 2♦ bid shows either 0-1 control - one king at best - and most players do agree that even with a negative response, the bidding should continue until opener bids either 2NT, 3 of a major, or 4 of a minor.

 

Opener just needs one king with a fit for 4♥/5♦ to be on, or just an entry and a finesse. So responder passes a 2♥ bid? What if opener's second suit is ♣s not ♦s?

 

Totally agree with rmnka447 that 3♥ is the likely outcome of this hand. My way of bidding this would be 2♣ - 2♦(I prefer negative to waiting) - 2♥ - 2NT (second negative) - 3♦ - 3♥ (grudging preference)

[GrahamJson]

Anyone who says they will stop in 3H is really resulting. Even with the awful S hand as dummy 4H has chances; it’s cold on a 3-3 break or on a non spade lead and a 4-2 break.

 

Playing old fashioned bridge it would go 2C - 2D - 2H - 2NT - 3D - 3H - 4D - 4H.

[The_Badger]

Anyone who says they will stop in 3H is really resulting. Even with the awful S hand as dummy 4H has chances; it’s cold on a 3-3 break or on a non spade lead and a 4-2 break.

 

Playing old fashioned bridge it would go 2C - 2D - 2H - 2NT - 3D - 3H - 4D - 4H.

 

And that's so true too, Graham. Just as a curiosity factor, I stuck the North hand in K&R and it comes out at 27.1. Even with 2♦ being 0-1 controls, or 2♦ being waiting or negative, and subsequent bids being a 'double negative' I can't see many players settling for 3♥ with the North hand. And even using Fantunes and Gazzilli I still can't see many North's settling for a part score either.

 

Yes, we're all resulting in la-la land.

[Cyberyeti]

actually the hand you show, you didn't need to jump: partner holding 4 card support over your 4 loser hand should invite also, even with a Yarborough as you already know he has no controls.

 

OK, look at the second hand then where 5♦ is hugely with the odds, or make the first hand 4333 rether than 3433.

 

I thought you were suggesting 2♣-2♥-P rather than 2♣-2♦-2♥ (which I would use as Kokish anyway so partner will never pass).

[msjennifer]

Since looking at partners hand is not allowed every “practically”oriented player ( and that includes me) will most certainly end up in 4H ..And that is that! Whether it makes or not is altogether different.

[kontoleon]

Tnx from your aswers. We bid 2 ♣ pass 2♦ pass 2♥ pass 3♣ pass 3♦ pass pass pass (i just no fit in H, possible Sigleton card,(never bid NT) and i prefere to stop in 3D anyway we fail, with minimum possible damage

 

ok we have no big experience my level is very close too intermadiate, And i have no idea what should i bid after after 2H. i try to saw my longest trumb (club). I have no idea what this bid mean in advance level

[Cyberyeti]

Tnx from your aswers. We bid 2 ♣ pass 2♦ pass 2♥ pass 3♣ pass 3♦ pass pass pass (i just no fit in H, possible Sigleton card,(never bid NT) and i prefere to stop in 3D anyway we fail, with minimum possible damage

 

ok we have no big experience my level is very close too intermadiate, And i have no idea what should i bid after after 2H. i try to saw my longest trumb (club). I have no idea what this bid mean in advance level

Was 3♣ natural ? and if so, how do you distinguish what you had from the same hand with ♣KJxxx ?

 

If you play a second negative you should use it over 2♥, various different people will use 2♠/2N/3♣ as second negative. A common style where I am is that unless 2N is the rebid, 2♣ is GF in which case you're not stopping.

 

The problem with your auction is that the big hand could be slightly better or more suitable, if he has to jump to stop you passing on a 2 or 3 suited hand, then it makes his life very difficult.

 

Try void, AKxxx, AKQJx, AKx for example.

[The_Badger]

Tnx from your aswers. We bid 2 ♣ pass 2♦ pass 2♥ pass 3♣ pass 3♦ pass pass pass (i just no fit in H, possible Sigleton card,(never bid NT) and i prefere to stop in 3D anyway we fail, with minimum possible damage

 

ok we have no big experience my level is very close too intermadiate, And i have no idea what should i bid after after 2H. i try to saw my longest trumb (club). I have no idea what this bid mean in advance level

 

The point Cyberyeti makes above is very valid. Although a 2♣ opening bid is seen as a Game Force by many players, it sometimes results in game being reached on mediocre fits as on this hand. No bridge system, I believe, as I have indicated in a previous comment, would cope easily with this hand. What you did by bidding 3♣ and passing 3♦ might not be technically correct, but sometimes luck and gut instinct plays a part in this game too :)

[miamijd]

You probably can't stop below game on this hand, and with a three-loser hand, I don't see why you would want to. Even with the N-S hands, you make 4H if H are 33 or if West doesn't lead a spade. Not so awful. And of course, there is no way to know partner's hand is truly this ghastly, even if he makes a 2H dbl negative bid (or some other similar dbl neg bid).

 

Cheers,

Mike

[Finanzier]

And you'll stop in 2♥ opposite xxx, 9xxx, 9xx, xxx or xxx, x, 98xxx, xxx where game is excellent, the hand is just too good to stop

 

I bid an system showing points. If I get an 2♦ answer (0-3 Points) I hope for xxxx,xxx,xxx,xxx with easy 10 tricks.

[maartenxq]

[hv=pc=n&s=s943h64d875ct7654&w=sk8765hk9753d6c83&n=sahaqjt2daqjt2caq&e=sqjt2h8dk943ckj92]399|300[/hv]

What about 2 ♣- 2 ♦/ 2 ♥- PASS? Now and then you must make anti system bids.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[Cyberyeti]

What about 2 ♣- 2 ♦/ 2 ♥- PASS? Now and then you must make anti system bids.

 

Maarten Baltussen

 

And partner with A, AKxxx, AK, AKxxx chalks up 2♥+3 with 7♣ requiring only a 2-1 club break

[RD350LC]

I don't normally get rude on this forum, or opinionated at best, but that it is rubbish, in my view. A 2♦ bid shows either 0-1 control - one king at best - and most players do agree that even with a negative response, the bidding should continue until opener bids either 2NT, 3 of a major, or 4 of a minor.

 

Opener just needs one king with a fit for 4♥/5♦ to be on, or just an entry and a finesse. So responder passes a 2♥ bid? What if opener's second suit is ♣s not ♦s?

 

Totally agree with rmnka447 that 3♥ is the likely outcome of this hand. My way of bidding this would be 2♣ - 2♦(I prefer negative to waiting) - 2♥ - 2NT (second negative) - 3♦ - 3♥ (grudging preference)

In reading a book by Frank Steward-modern convention systems, I consider a 2C opener forcing only to 3 of a major. In this respect, I agree with the above statements-and let the bidding die at 3H. After all, north does have 24 hcp, but a lot of quacks there, making it worth less.

[miamijd]

I can't understand why so many on these forums appear to be so focused on stopping short of game on marginal hands. In the long run, it's far better bridge to bid your thin games. Sometimes they make. Sometimes normal defense won't beat them. Sometimes the opponents don't find the best defense, especially the best opening lead (yes, even world champions often don't find the best line of D). Much better than being too conservative.

 

This game will make if hearts are 33 or if they are 42 and West doesn't find a spade lead. On the actual lie of the cards, of course, you will go down at 4H, but you will also go down at 3H (3H being better at MPs of course, but not substantially better at IMPs).

 

Cheers,

Mike

[wank]

2D waiting is a very clumsy system that makes it hard to stop in this sort of position.

if you can bid number of points or number of controls over 2C it is easy to stop in 2H.

 

i never saw any good players playing control responses. my own opinion is they're beyond terrible.

[broze]

i never saw any good players playing control responses. my own opinion is they're beyond terrible.

 

Kit Woolsey plays control responses.

 

I personally don't like them.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=s943h64d875ct7654&w=sk8765hk9753d6c83&n=sahaqjt2daqjt2caq&e=sqjt2h8dk943ckj92]399|300|

No matter who is the dealer All rest player have no opening possible hand.(ok If someboby disagree with this lets tell that deler is N)

North have 24HCP with 5 H and 5 D, but south have only 2 H 0HCP

We have no good mans! S is out of question,NT we hane Only 1s H is possible with 7 card fit and D we have 8 card fit but is minor

According the BBO Advance1.3 N sould opening 2♣ pass 2♥(totally negative hand) pass and now what? Even if partener have classic system with answer 2♦, is still possible to End this Bid below 3NT?

Sorry from this message if is long or spam. This hand is totally random draw on friendly house game[/hv]

We might reach 4♥ with these hands. And expect to make it against friendly distribution/defence. Perhaps.

2♣ - 2♦ -

2♥ - 2♠ -

3♦ - 3♥ -

4♥

If your methods keep you low on this layout, then you are likely to miss good games

[mikestar13]

The whole room bids game on goes down with these cards. Mostly in 4♥, at imps someone will get to 5♦, at matchoints some intrepid soul will find his way to 3NT and get butchered. So if you can stop on a dime you have a good board--and if you stop on a dime on a very slightly different hand your result will be quite atrocious. The game may well be laydown, or may make even when it shouldn't (especially if the auction is unrevealing). It just isn't profitable to design a bidding system around staying out of game on a hand this good, H ands where stopping works are less frequent than auctions that will get messed up by opener's fear of getting dropped below game.