18-19 balanced with a fit?

[el mister]

Had this hand in a teams game last night that had me a little stumped on how best to handle it [spots are approximate]

[hv=pc=n&s=saqjhqj76daj6ckj6&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1cp1hp]133|200[/hv]

 

With pard being unlimited I didn't want to plough a 4♥ or 3N bid straight off, but 3♥ or 2N don't seem ideal, either. What is best?

[Tramticket]

It is certainly not too strong for 4♥ - at least in my system (Acol). With a very balanced 18 count and no ruffing potential you might argue that it is too weak (partner might only holding 5-6 points).

 

Since it is vulnerable at teams I bid 4♥.

[The_Badger]

Playing 2/1, and perhaps any other system these days, a 2NT rebid is (virtually) forcing to game showing 18-19 balanced over a 1 level opening and 1 level response.

 

Many players have a checkback bid in their armoury using 3♣ to find out opener's precise distribution and/or stoppers. That said, if responder is similarly balanced, you may not find out whether 4♥ or 3NT, or for that matter any other contract, is better and realistically you want South to play the hand given the tenaces which cannot happen in a ♥ contract.

 

The one thing you don't want to rebid is 3NT as it denies support for ♥s and shows a completely different hand, a solid(ish) long minor suit with stoppers in the unbid suits.

[el mister]

Thks - I did actually bid 2N at the table as I figured pard could use NMF if he had some stuff. It didn't feel like a sound bid, though, to go 2N with an established 8 card+ fit in a major?

[Cyberyeti]

We experimented with using a 3N rebid as GF with 4 card support and no more than 4 clubs (so 4414, or a 4432 with clubs and hearts, we'd open 1♥ with your hand) and it was fine, but we found we didn't really need it due to other peculiarities of our system.

[Tramticket]

Looking at the positional nature of the guards, I'm starting to prefer 2NT.

[WellSpyder]

One of my partners likes to play that the so-called "cheapest splinter" (in this case, 3♦) shows 18-19 balanced with a fit. 3♦ is not needed as a natural jump-shift since a reverse into 2♦ is F. Of course, it does mean that you need 4♦ to show fit + shortage, as a splinter is supposed to do, but I suspect many would need to bid this high to show a splinter, anyway.

[nige1]

Had this hand in a teams game last night that had me a little stumped on how best to handle it [spots are approximate][hv=pc=n&s=saqjhqj76daj6ckj6&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1cp1hp]133|200|

With pard being unlimited I didn't want to plough a 4♥ or 3N bid straight off, but 3♥ or 2N don't seem ideal, either. What is best?[/hv]

IMO this is worth 4♥.

[steve2005]

Thks - I did actually bid 2N at the table as I figured pard could use NMF if he had some stuff. It didn't feel like a sound bid, though, to go 2N with an established 8 card+ fit in a major?

Checkback or NMF is to find 3-card support. If partner has only 4♥ you could be missing a ♥ slam for all you know. Who cares what side you play it from!

With 4-card support you have to show it. Either 3♥ or 4♥.

 

 

[steve2005]

Standard for 3NT is suggested spot to play based on a source of tricks in your minor.

[Stephen Tu]

IMO:

It's 4333 and 4 jacks which may not all be pulling weight so 3H is plenty IMO if only choice is that or 4H. Partner can see vul also so won't be quick to pass 3H anyway except with real dogs of hands.

 

3d is ok if playing that as 18-19 bal raise instead of mini spl.

 

I think 2nt is gross. Partner with stiff/small doubleton in a minor won't checkback with 4 cd hearts because 2nt will be assumed to deny 4 cd heart. After raise to 3nt, I think major making while 3nt fail going to be more common than other way around.

[Cyberyeti]

Standard for 3NT is suggested spot to play based on a source of tricks in your minor.

 

I know, but we don't need it for that (as is quite easy if you play a weak notrump and a wide range strong NT rebid).

[msjennifer]

A balanced hand with stoppers in all suits,and 7 losers if played in hearts .2NT describes the hand perfectly So I shall rebid 2NT every time with such a hand,There are no ruffing values at all.So a nine tricks contract will ,in my opinion ,must be exploited and suggested to partner.2NT does show18/19 balanced.

[The_Badger]

IMO:

It's 4333 and 4 jacks which may not all be pulling weight so 3H is plenty IMO if only choice is that or 4H. Partner can see vul also so won't be quick to pass 3H anyway except with real dogs of hands.

 

3d is ok if playing that as 18-19 bal raise instead of mini spl.

 

I think 2nt is gross. Partner with stiff/small doubleton in a minor won't checkback with 4 cd hearts because 2nt will be assumed to deny 4 cd heart. After raise to 3nt, I think major making while 3nt fail going to be more common than other way around.

 

At the worst, opener does have an option of bidding again after 2NT, whereas after 3♥ he doesn't. I agree bidding 2NT is not pretty, but if partner does use checkback there's nothing to say opener cannot bid 4♦ or 4♥as a response.

 

It is an automatic response to raise from 1M to 2M with 4 card support, but when opener is stronger, and there might be an advantage to him playing the hand, the forcing 2NT rebid defining the hand shape perfectly, even with 4 card support does at least allow a 'second bite of the cherry' for opener. I'd rather raise to 3M/4M immediately with a shapelier hand than this pudding of a 3343.

[Vampyr]

One of my partners likes to play that the so-called "cheapest splinter" (in this case, 3♦) shows 18-19 balanced with a fit. 3♦ is not needed as a natural jump-shift since a reverse into 2♦ is F. Of course, it does mean that you need 4♦ to show fit + shortage, as a splinter is supposed to do, but I suspect many would need to bid this high to show a splinter, anyway.

 

We do something similar but use the cheapest reverse. One of the hand-types is a hand too good to raise to game.

[steve2005]

A balanced hand with stoppers in all suits,and 7 losers if played in hearts .2NT describes the hand perfectly So I shall rebid 2NT every time with such a hand,There are no ruffing values at all.So a nine tricks contract will ,in my opinion ,must be exploited and suggested to partner.2NT does show18/19 balanced.

You have no ruffing values it is true but partner likely does. 4H can easily make when 3N down when partner is short in a suit where your stoppers aren't good enough. There is also a possibility of 6H, if you rebid 2N it will make finding 6H much harder.

 

Also, partner is allowed to pass 2N. Without knowing you have 4-hearts partner won't know his hearts are running or 1-loser so may pass close hand that will make game.

 

If you have convention that shows balanced 4-card support then great but without it you need to show your support.

[PhilG007]

Had this hand in a teams game last night that had me a little stumped on how best to handle it [spots are approximate]

[hv=pc=n&s=saqjhqj76daj6ckj6&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1cp1hp]133|200[/hv]

 

With pard being unlimited I didn't want to plough a 4♥ or 3N bid straight off, but 3♥ or 2N don't seem ideal, either. What is best?

3NT is best as you want the lead to come up to the strong hand with its tenaces. North should not disturb this unless

he has 6+ ♥ With 19 pts opposite partners known minimum of 6 I want to be in a game contract.

[billyjef]

Had this hand in a teams game last night that had me a little stumped on how best to handle it [spots are approximate]

[hv=pc=n&s=saqjhqj76daj6ckj6&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1cp1hp]133|200[/hv]

 

With pard being unlimited I didn't want to plough a 4♥ or 3N bid straight off, but 3♥ or 2N don't seem ideal, either. What is best?

 

The hand has more downgrades than up grades and the presence of queens and jacks that will work better in notrump and tenaces that would prefer to be led up to in the hidden hand, I'll pretend my hand is 3333 and bid 2NT.

K&R = 16.5

Kleinman = 18-

 

[LBengtsson]

3NT is best as you want the lead to come up to the strong hand with its tenaces. North should not disturb this unless

he has 6+ ♥ With 19 pts opposite partners known minimum of 6 I want to be in a game contract.

 

lol. me bid 2/1 1♥ with ♠xxxx ♥Axxxx ♦x ♣xxx 4 count, not 6

[rmnka447]

I think a 2 NT rebid is right on the hand.

 

You can't strictly know if 3 NT or 4 ♥ is better at this point. But you may have agreements over the 2 NT rebid that let find out more about partner's hand to push you either way. Suit contracts usually make more tricks if the hand with trump shortness can ruff. With 4-4 fits, either hand can be the "short" trump hand. If partner has as flat a hand as you, 3 NT may be the superior contract.

 

In the meantime, you've set it up so you declare at NT, so that the opening lead will come into your tenaces if that's where you play.

[Stephen Tu]

I guess I really don't understand the people who want to conceal the heart fit. If the hand were a point stronger, and you open 2nt, and partner bids stayman, do you deny holding a major because of your tenaces? To me your tenace help you just one time, on opening lead, it will be attackable later, and it often won't be enough of a stopper facing a stiff/small doubleton.

 

Yes it's POSSIBLE that 3nt plays better than 4H. But is it percentage?? Maybe someone should run a sim.

 

I don't want to miss my 4-4 heart fits when partner is 34(15) or 3424 or 2425. Or my NINE card heart fit when partner is 5332 and decides not to check back for what he thinks is only 8 cd possible heart fit.

[gwnn]

Is this what the forums have become these days??

 

(3H - the standard bid on an unexceptional 18-19 with a fit)

[Malachi]

Of course you have no distribution for H, but partner's hand will on average contain a substantial amount of useful distribution, whether or not he can bid over 2N.

 

Give him

S xxx

H Kxxxx

D x

C Qxxx

 

And he passes 2N when 4H is cold.

 

I choose 3H, expecting partner to accept on this hand and on most hands where 4H has good play. We always reach H and stay out of all bad games.

[bravejason]

I like 2NT. It describes opener's hand very well. It also gives responder an opportunity explore for the right contract, which could be 2NT. I think avoiding 2NT on account of responder having a singleton or something is overthinking the situation. If responder has that, she'll be able to offer another suit or rebid hearts and then opener will have the opportunity to correct as needed. Otherwise responder can go to 3NT or pass 2NT if the 1H was a courtesy bid made on a really weak hand.

[Stephen Tu]

I think avoiding 2NT on account of responder having a singleton or something is overthinking the situation. If responder has that, she'll be able to offer another suit or rebid hearts and then opener will have the opportunity to correct as needed.

 

Not raising hearts is the overthinking IMO.

 

Responder with 4 hearts and a minor stiff or small doubleton is passing 2nt or bidding 3. Not going to offer another suit. 3m is usually artificial and/or forcing. They aren't going to checkback because 5m is too remote vs 3nt, it reveals more to the defense than just raising, and going through checkback will often lead to opener supporting on THREE at the 4 level which they really don't want.

 

I can understand concealing heart fit with 4 baby hearts and the outside suits all double stopped. Not this hand.