finesse or ruffing finesse?

[Wackojack]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak854haj9853dkc5&n=s3hq2djt6caqjt863&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p3cp3hp4hppp]266|200|Lead 7S to 10 and Ace[/hv]

 

Obviously you must try and get away spade losers on clubs. Bearing in mind that opps lead 2nd or 4th and it is therefore not clear if leading from 1, 2 3 4 or 5 card suit which play gives better odds?

Club to Queen or to Ace?

 

In general also when the situation is unclear is one play superior?

[The_Badger]

I'm inclined to go for the ruffing finesse opposed to a straight hook because if it fails you lose one of your entries to dummy and the danger hand East can lead through your hand next.

[alok c]

Ruffing finesse at least you can discard your losing ♦ if it fails & lead will be with West.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak854haj9853dkc5&n=s3hq2djt6caqjt863&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p3cp3hp4hppp]266|200|

Lead 7S to 10 and Ace

Obviously you must try and get away spade losers on clubs. Bearing in mind that opps lead 2nd or 4th and it is therefore not clear if leading from 1, 2 3 4 or 5 card suit which play gives better odds?

Club to Queen or to Ace?

In general also when the situation is unclear is one play superior?[/hv]

My guess is to ruff out the ♠s.

♠A, ruff a ♠, ♣A, ruff a ♣, ruff a ♠

Discard a ♦ on ♣Q if it's good; or if RHO follows.

Hope to to lose a couple of trump tricks and possibly a ♦

 

If instead, you elect to finesse ♣s, I think you should take the ordinary finesse, rather than the trump-finesse because the former requires opponents to follow to only 2 rounds of ♣s. When the ♣ finesse wins, you can immediately discard a ♦ on the good ♣ before attempting to ruff out the ♠s.

 

On reflection, Aloc c and the Badger might be right. I think 've underestimated the merits of the trump-finesse in this layout.

 

Aloc c points out that a losing trump finesse leaves LHO on lead.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=sqjt9432h2d2caqjt&n=sahakj43da76543c2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1c(ART 16+)p1s(NAT 8+HCP)p2dP2sp4sp6s]266|200|At Eastbourne, there was a hand like this. After terrible bidding, declarer, South plays In 6♠ on a ♥lead. Declarer must decide between a trump-finesse and an normal finesse.

 

The advantage of the ordinary finesse is that it requires opponents to follow to only 2 rounds of ♣s.

 

I cashed ♣A, however, and successfully trump-finessed ♣Q. I should have continued with ♣T in the hope that LHO would fail to cover but I led ♣J. LHO covered with ♣K and I ruffed with dummy's ♠A.

 

All I need do now is to discard my remaining ♣ on ♥K, and draw trumps, entering hand with red suit ruffs :)

 

Instead, I snatched defeat from the jaws of victory:

 

I fell from grace, ruffing a ♦ without first discarding the good ♣. When I led ♠Q, LHO won ♠K and gave RHO a ♣ ruff :([/hv]

[gszes]

If this is MP I can see some merits to taking the club finesse (I see almost zero positive benefits to taking the ruffing finesse which appears to break even at best). At IMPS we are in a very reasonable contract with no reason to assume bad splits so it seems Nige1 first instinct appears to be correct since we might very easily lose only 1 dia and 2 trumps under most circumstances and maybe even hold our trump losers to 1 w/o all the risk that comes with trying to guess clubs (including a possible club ruff or uppercut even when we guess right).

[Wackojack]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak854haj9853dkc5&w=s9762ht6daq9542c2&n=s3hq2djt6caqjt863&e=sqjthk74d873ck974&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p3cp3hp4hppp]399|300|7S lead[/hv]

 

This was the full deal so Nigel's plan to xruff immediately does not work provided west does not waste her 9.

 

Immediate play on clubs will work either taking the unsuccessful club hook or trump finesse in clubs sustaining a ruff. However, it requires intelligent reading of the cards which I was unable to do at the table.

 

I finessed the club immediately on the assumption that west was leading from a likely doubleton spade and so longer clubs more likely to have the K. East returned 8D to K and Ace. Then West cashed Qd ruffed in hand. Small spade ruffed. Instead of first cashing my winning Qd, I thought I would get a discard on my Ac. Fatal when west ruffs.

[dokoko]

Seems i missed the point of the hand.

 

As you cannot draw trumps before discarding losers on the clubs the plan cannot be to establish clubs.

 

I would try to ruff out the spades, planning to lose one diamond and two trumps (if spades are 52 i need to drop ♥10)

 

As I have to come back to hand by ruffing, there are two apparent dangers:

 

- if trumps are 4-1 I might lose control

- if LHO has a singleton club he might overruff, cash the ace of diamonds and remove dummy's trump.

 

So I plan as follows:

 

♠ ruff, ♣A, ♣Q discarding ♦K if not covered.

If LHO wins and plays trump, I will lose one trump only if noone has ♥K10xx.

If RHO covers ♣Q I ruff with ♥A and then play ♠A, ♠ ruff and ♣J discarding ♦K.

 

I didn't calculate but this seems to win most of the time.