1H, 2C or 2NT?

[diana_eva]

IMPs, all vul

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?s=SA5HAQJT6DKT65CAK&d=n&v=b&a=PP?]200|300[/hv]

 

What would you open?

[MrAce]

1♥

[The_Badger]

Once upon a time these hands would be automatically opened either 2♣ or 2NT, but there's a school of thought that having all the points in one hand, especially with 5-4-2-2 shape, it's better to open at the one level, even with 21 of them! This said, partner needs so little to make game a feasible option, that opening at the one level is also slightly dicey. However, with a forcing 1NT response available, this makes life easier. (Also, I think it is easier for North to judge the situation if he has a weak hand with partner opening in 3rd if West passes)

 

However, I wouldn't criticise anyone who opened 2NT or 2♣ with these hands. Five quick tricks and a K & R count of over 23.

[Cyberyeti]

Tactically I'd probably open 2♣ intending to follow up with 2N which is 22-23 for us (if I bid it as hearts via 2♣ it would be GF which is overstating this hand). I may not enjoy this so much if opps have an easy in with 1♠ over 1♥. If I had the spade suit instead of the heart suit, 1♠ every day.

[diana_eva]

What's the advantage of opening this at the 1st level? I don't see it at all. I get it for the distributional hands where you'll have to start describing your hand at the 2nd or 3rd level, but here, what is there to describe? You've got points and you're flat. You can describe that with 2c and/or 2nt, no?

[broze]

What's the advantage of opening this at the 1st level? I don't see it at all. I get it for the distributional hands where you'll have to start describing your hand at the 2nd or 3rd level, but here, what is there to describe? You've got points and you're flat. You can describe that with 2c and/or 2nt, no?

 

I also bid 1♥ and I don't think it's close. Two reasons: firstly it gives us more room to find the best game. Secondly, your hand is not even that strong. If partner passes 1H we are not missing game and 1H might be our best spot.

[diana_eva]

I also bid 1♥ and I don't think it's close. Two reasons: firstly it gives us more room to find the best game. Secondly, your hand is not even that strong. If partner passes 1H we are not missing game and 1H might be our best spot.

 

Funny, I thought the hand was too good for 2NT.

[Cyberyeti]

I also bid 1♥ and I don't think it's close. Two reasons: firstly it gives us more room to find the best game. Secondly, your hand is not even that strong. If partner passes 1H we are not missing game and 1H might be our best spot.

 

You can EASILY be missing game on a hand partner passes 1♥, possibly in diamonds xxx, x, Qxxxxx, xxx for example or xxx, xxx, QJx, xxxx for 4♥, but is it a risk worth taking ? Constructively it probably is, but tactically possibly not, how much are you going to enjoy 1♥-(1♠)-P-(3♠) for example ?

[broze]

Funny, I thought the hand was too good for 2NT.

 

I agree it is. ;)

 

Too strong for 2N not strong enough for a GF 2C

[diana_eva]

2C is not GF. It's very strong and almost GF but pd can for instance give a transfer and pass below game with a yarb.

[Cyberyeti]

Too strong for 2N not strong enough for a GF 2C

 

Many people here have the agreement that 2♣ is GF unless you rebid 2N.

 

Treating it as a balanced 22-23 feels about right if you consider it balanced, certainly too good for 20-22 (which is actually rarely 22 so partner isn't going to expect something this good).

[broze]

Many people here have the agreement that 2♣ is GF unless you rebid 2N.

 

Treating it as a balanced 22-23 feels about right if you consider it balanced, certainly too good for 20-22 (which is actually rarely 22 so partner isn't going to expect something this good).

 

Of course I mean too strong for 2C followed by 2H. Rebidding 2N is right on values but simply a misdescription of the hand.

 

Re cyber's hands above I would not pass the first one with a singleton in partner's suit; the second one I accept but is a tiny risk. I don't forsee a problem after 1H (1s) p (3s) dbl. I'd hugely prefer this to 2c (2s) p p

[gszes]

It takes so little from p to make vul game that opening 1 lvl bothers me. I would opt for since being a little bit overboard is no where near as scary as missing game. The great heart suit virtually guarantees no x which removes a lot of the downside of getting a bit too high. NVUL I would probably open 1H.

[Cyberyeti]

Of course I mean too strong for 2C followed by 2H. Rebidding 2N is right on values but simply a misdescription of the hand.

 

Re cyber's hands above I would not pass the first one with a singleton in partner's suit; the second one I accept but is a tiny risk. I don't forsee a problem after 1H (1s) p (3s) dbl. I'd hugely prefer this to 2c (2s) p p

 

The problem is that you X 3♠, partner bids 4♣, now what ? you have no clue whether 4♣/5♣/4♥ is the right spot

 

The issue is that 2♠ doesn't very often get called over 2♣, certainly not on the 5 card suit and an 8 count that many people overcall 1♠ over 1♥ with.

[apollo1201]

If the suit was S, the 1 level would be out of question for me (partner scramble some sort of 1S with eg Jxxxx xx Ax xxxx but would not bid 1NT on a 1S opening with same hand with reversed majors).

 

2NT with a prime 21 incl a 5-cd suit is a mis-evaluation.

 

So 2C and then it is close between 2H as the suit is really strong and 2NT as the hand is semi-balanced. The answer could well depend on how confident I feel with partner on the follow up sequences. And if opps bid, not too much of an issue (so far).

[broze]

The problem is that you X 3♠, partner bids 4♣, now what ? you have no clue whether 4♣/5♣/4♥ is the right spot

 

The issue is that 2♠ doesn't very often get called over 2♣, certainly not on the 5 card suit and an 8 count that many people overcall 1♠ over 1♥ with.

 

An easy 4D over 4C

[mikeh]

I am a strong proponent of opening at the one-level with almost any 2-suiter or 3-suiter. I have done so with as much as 23 hcp, and still recall that the first time I did so, my partner and I were the only pair, in a large sectional, to reach the excellent grand in my second suit.

 

However, this hand is an exception, primarily because I don't see any good way forward after 1♥. In particular, we are rarely, if ever, realistically reaching a good diamond contract. No way does this hand open 1♥ and rebid 3♦ on K10xx, with A/AK in the blacks.

 

This hand is too strong for 2N, with the heart length and texture and the diamond 10, so I would choose 2♣, intending to treat it as a balanced 23 count. Were I Ax AQJ10x K10x AKx, I'd bid it this way as well.

 

Actually, I think that doing it this way maximizes the chances of finding a diamond slam, compared to all alternatives. Partner, with a decent 5+ diamond suit is far more likely to show the suit over a 2♣ then 2N sequence than any other plausible sequence (assuming that one agrees that the suit and hand are 'wrong' for 1♥ then diamonds).

 

Btw, the discussion about problems caused for 1♥ openers, should the opps bounce is spades, is silly. At least if one opens 1♥ one has shown a suit, and partner may be able to raise at some point, especially since the conditions of their preempting pretty much assure that partner has short spades! Imagine him holding 2=3=3=5 and we open 1♥ and later double....he'll have an easy heart bid. Contrast this with 2♣ [2♠] P [3♠}.

 

Indeed, if we knew the opps would be bouncing in spades, that would be a valid reason for opening 1♥! But we have zero reason to worry about this, at least not to the point of nobbling our ability to show our hand when they don't.

[Cyberyeti]

Mike, I agree with almost all your analysis except the bit about spade interference. In paractice at I/A you very rarely see interference over 2♣ other than with hands that would intervene with more than 1♠ over 1♥, whereas 1♠ over 1♥ is frequent with hands that pass over 2♣.

 

Also it depends on system, if you have a gadget to show a GF over a 1♠ response from partner (as we do), then finding a sensible spot after a 1♥ opener isn't so difficult, but you have to bite the bullet and bid 3♦ if partner bids 1N.

[diana_eva]

This was played in a JEC match and there was interference. But I didn't think it was relevant when I posted. At my table I opened 2NT and regretted not bidding 2C (reason was, i didn't really know my partner and was afraid he plays 2c as absolute GF). At the other table JEC opened it 1H which left me perplexed - hence the post.

[pescetom]

I would open it as 2NT, which for us is 22+... NT systems are robust and partner with Puppet Stayman will get the picture.

1H does not look worth the risk on such a balanced high points hand.

2C then 2H looks masochistic, at least for those of us who play Kokish.

[mike777]

Prefer 1h with this two suiter

 

can live with 2c opening.

 

It helps that prd is a passed hand so less worry about missing slam.

Yes missing game is a bit of a concern with opening 1h with these hand types but it so seldom go pass out these days.