can double michaels for pen but not the runout

[Stephen Tu]

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=stephtu&s=SKQ62HJ4DAQ542C98&wn=Robot&w=SA8753HKQ765D8CT2&nn=Robot&n=SJ4HA9832DJ7CKQ43&en=Robot&e=ST9HTDKT963CAJ765&d=s&v=e&b=19&a=1D(Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20%21D%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)2D!(Michaels%20--%203-%20%21C%3B%203-%20%21D%3B%205+%20%21H%3B%205+%20%21S%3B%2012+%20total%20points%3B%20forcing)D(Penalty%20double%20--%2010+%20HCP)PP2H(3-%20%21C%3B%203-%20%21D%3B%205+%20%21S%3B%20rebiddable%20%21H%3B%2012+%20total%20points)PPD(5+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)PP2S(3+%20%21S)D(5+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%202+%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P3C(4+%20%21C%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%2010+%20HCP)P3D(6+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%202+%20%21S%3B%2013-14%20total%20points)PPD(3+%20%21S%3B%208+%20HCP%3B%20biddable%20%21D%3B%208-%20total%20points)PPP&p=HKHAHTH4H2STHJHQSAS4S9S2S7SJD3S6CAC8C2C3C7C9CTCKDJDKDAD8DQS3D7DTSQS8H3D9D6D2H5H8CJSKH7CQC4C6D4H6D5S5H9C5]400|300[/hv]

 

Apparently can't double with 5 trumps or 4 trumps because partner will pull.

[steve2005]

Why have initial X penalty if it isn't possible to double later. Might as well make it takeout or support.

In other words get rid of unusual vs unusual

[Bermy]

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=stephtu&s=SKQ62HJ4DAQ542C98&wn=Robot&w=SA8753HKQ765D8CT2&nn=Robot&n=SJ4HA9832DJ7CKQ43&en=Robot&e=ST9HTDKT963CAJ765&d=s&v=e&b=19&a=1D(Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20%21D%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)2D!(Michaels%20--%203-%20%21C%3B%203-%20%21D%3B%205+%20%21H%3B%205+%20%21S%3B%2012+%20total%20points%3B%20forcing)D(Penalty%20double%20--%2010+%20HCP)PP2H(3-%20%21C%3B%203-%20%21D%3B%205+%20%21S%3B%20rebiddable%20%21H%3B%2012+%20total%20points)PPD(5+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)PP2S(3+%20%21S)D(5+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%202+%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P3C(4+%20%21C%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%2010+%20HCP)P3D(6+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21H%3B%202+%20%21S%3B%2013-14%20total%20points)PPD(3+%20%21S%3B%208+%20HCP%3B%20biddable%20%21D%3B%208-%20total%20points)PPP&p=HKHAHTH4H2STHJHQSAS4S9S2S7SJD3S6CAC8C2C3C7C9CTCKDJDKDAD8DQS3D7DTSQS8H3D9D6D2H5H8CJSKH7CQC4C6D4H6D5S5H9C5]400|300[/hv]

 

Apparently can't double with 5 trumps or 4 trumps because partner will pull.

 

Another extreme example of "Gib cannot bid"

What Bidding logic places North in control. Surely by this point in the bidding North knows 4+ D 2- H and less than 3 clubs. What perverse logic removes this obvious penalty double into a take out on a 7 card fit?

 

How do you beat your partner?

 

Either defend the contract undoubled.......not good bridge at all, or risk a rubbish contract.

 

Thanks Partner.......

[steve2005]

Penalizing with Gib is a real crap shoot. Here the bidding system is designed to extract a penalty on hands like this.

But Gib can't co-operate.

Anytime I have triedI have tried to make a penalty double below game you have no idea it you can pull it off even if the description indicates penalty.