MrAce Posted July 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Justin, what would you bid on #2 ? Do you think 3 ♥ is a gross overbid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Justin, what would you bid on #2 ? Do you think 3 ♥ is a gross overbid? I would bid 3H because I think double is penalty and I don't want to do that. It is an overbid in the sense that it can easily get us too high but I don't feel like I have any other option. I'm sure having some system like an artificial 2S bid here or something would be great but I have no such system and this auction is not high on my priority list to make obscure meanings since it doesn't come up that frequently. Obviously a lot depends on how light you open NV etc, but I am not going to make a penalty X or a weak bid or pass so 3H is all I'm left with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 Ah well yes I wouldn't be doubling if it were penalties. As you rightly say it's not an auction people have any agreements about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 Ah well yes I wouldn't be doubling if it were penalties. As you rightly say it's not an auction people have any agreements about. We all would double if it was not penalties. Who wants to lose a whole level via 3♥ cue if DBL was such an obvious take-out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 If you're acting on 3, why would you bid 2♠ rather than double? Or are you going to tell me that's for penalties too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 On 2, I think double certainly should be for takeout. I don't think I've ever had a penalty double in this auction, from either side - this is one auction where they always have a solid overcall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 If you're acting on 3, why would you bid 2♠ rather than double? Or are you going to tell me that's for penalties too? No, it's not for penalties but I expect pd to hold ♥ values and good defense with 1.5 NT hand (a bad 11 or a good 10). You can call it cooperative or optional or w/e you like. On 2, I think double certainly should be for takeout. I don't think I've ever had a penalty double in this auction, from either side - this is one auction where they always have a solid overcall. What should be the best agreement and what pd would think without an agreement are two totally different things. If so many world class players think it is ambiguous without an agreement then maybe it is. When there is no agreement, it needs two (too many) things to happen simultaneously. Your pd will be in same wavelength with you.Your pd will then decide that you are in same wavelength with him/her.Most experts that I know would never risk such a thing at the table without an agreement. So double is pretty much out without agreement imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 On 2, I think double certainly should be for takeout. I don't think I've ever had a penalty double in this auction, from either side - this is one auction where they always have a solid overcall. heh I went for 1400 on this auction once in the trials, luckily my counterpart was the only other person to overcall 2H. I generally think it's a good auction to overcall somewhat aggressively since the opps don't usually have solid agreements. I agree that most people are usually pretty sound there though, but even after a solid overcall they could just be going for a number. Agree that openers X is obviously takeout though, usually it's not good to play one persons X as penalty and one as takeout (and I'm not saying it necessarily is here), but I don't think it's illogical when they overcall in the only suit you've bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 If you're acting on 3, why would you bid 2♠ rather than double? Or are you going to tell me that's for penalties too?Surprise, surprise I agree. I did double Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Btw wrt 3H being pre-emptive by 'expert consensus', I think that's an American thing. In my area it's invitational, stronger then 2 and with a 5th card which 2 might not have (2 being 8-11 with 4 or a bit less with 5 which I gather from a previous discussion you hate). I know that's the case for fluffy too, because it's come up before. When 3rd hand has passed I don't see the need for a pre-empt personally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Btw wrt 3H being pre-emptive by 'expert consensus', I think that's an American thing. In my area it's invitational, stronger then 2 and with a 5th card which 2 might not have (2 being 8-11 with 4 or a bit less with 5 which I gather from a previous discussion you hate). I know that's the case for fluffy too, because it's come up before. When 3rd hand has passed I don't see the need for a pre-empt personally. No it's not American thing. Most Americans I know are stranger to it. They play like you the other style 3 ♥ showing 5+ ♥ and invitational while 2♥ can be made by 4 cards. In fact they usually play 2♥ showing exactly 4 and 3♥ showing 5, that is what I hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I actually checked with David Gold and you maybe right, Alex. He said "it is common among top experts in America but not reached England yet, not many players plays it weak 6 cards in England" The reason I wrote "it's not American thing" is because I know many top players from Europe who plays it as I said but that may be due to playing almost all nationals here. I don't know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Hand 4, are the people who are not bidding 6S trying to get to 7, or trying to get to hearts, or trying to stop in 5 (?).Yes, the main aim is to investigate grand - I figured that was clear from me by my writing that the FP route might result in a 6♥ call the following round. Out of interest, how do you personally bid your FNJ hand type on this kind of auction? 5♥ followed by 6♠ seems like the most natural but a FP followed by bidding hearts seems to me an elegant solution for an otherwise under-utilised auction. On 2, I think double certainly should be for takeout. I don't think I've ever had a penalty double in this auction, from either side - this is one auction where they always have a solid overcall.On #2 I think the double should be competitive rather than strictly takeout or penalty, in effect DSIP. In fact they usually play 2♥ showing exactly 4 and 3♥ showing 5, that is what I hate.That does indeed seem like a poor method but I would assume it is only played at club level and not by experts. On the other hand, it seems like a reasonable debate as to whether a double jump is better used as to play opposite 19-21 balanced (your suggested ♥Qxxxxx and out) or GF opposite that hand (adding an extra king somewhere, for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.