Phil Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Late to the party. I would lead my 'normal' heart and try to Smith or SP my way back to a diamond shift if it looked warranted. Defense is just too murky (read: impossible) if you give bad intel at T1. Of course, if all you care about is the post-mortem or posting in bridge forums, then lead a weird heart. As far as the original problem is concerned, it looks blindingly obvious to win the 1st spade and send a heart back. If partner had some spectacular diamond holding, I would expect to see some kind of alarm clock play on the spade or club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted July 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Partner (me) had xx Axxxx KJxx xx, which I decided wasn't quite an overcall. At the table, my P ducked the second spade, hoping to see a useful discard from me - then they cashed their 7 tricks in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Partner (me) had xx Axxxx KJxx xx, which I decided wasn't quite an overcall. At the table, my P ducked the second spade, hoping to see a useful discard from me - then they cashed their 7 tricks in the minors. Are they still waiting or did they give up :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Partner (me) had xx Axxxx KJxx xx, which I decided wasn't quite an overcall. At the table, my P ducked the second spade, hoping to see a useful discard from me - then they cashed their 7 tricks in the minors. I protest the description of the opponents. "Good" club players would end in 4S. Run-of-the-mill club players reach 3NT. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 I protest the description of the opponents. "Good" club players would end in 4S. Run-of-the-mill club players reach 3NT. :) LOL. The more you try to defend the nonsense the more you dig yourself into it. It is very normal for ending up in 3 NT even for world class W players. You already saw dummy. Why did you not complain about the bidding of dummy? Because if someone is gonna bid 4 ♠ that is E. Not W who already preferred 3♠ instead of 3 NT over 3♣. How the **** is W suppose to know whether E had this hand or Qxxxx ATx KQ Kxx or AKxxx Jxx Kx Kxx ? Why would anyone sane want to play 4♠ with these collections? I love it when people defend for something that has slim to none percentage and the start complaining about their opponents and their bidding, particularly when their complain is worse than their defensive mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 Partner (me) had xx Axxxx KJxx xx, which I decided wasn't quite an overcall. At the table, my P ducked the second spade, hoping to see a useful discard from me - then they cashed their 7 tricks in the minors. [hv=pc=n&n=S53HA7432DKJ32C75&s=sa864hjt986dq7c93&e=skqt92hkdt5ck8642&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1dp1sp2cp2h(GF)p2np3cp3sp3nppp&p=h3hkhjh5c2c3cAc5s3s5sks4s2]400|300|So the board layout was like this.Mr Ace, Phil, and co return a ♥ to defeat the contract :)But I switch to ♦s and let it home with overtricks :(Story of my life :( [/hv] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 LOL. The more you try to defend the nonsense the more you dig yourself into it. It is very normal for ending up in 3 NT even for world class W players. You already saw dummy. Why did you not complain about the bidding of dummy? Because if someone is gonna bid 4 ♠ that is E. Not W who already preferred 3♠ instead of 3 NT over 3♣. How the **** is W suppose to know whether E had this hand or Qxxxx ATx KQ Kxx or AKxxx Jxx Kx Kxx ? Why would anyone sane want to play 4♠ with these collections? I love it when people defend for something that has slim to none percentage and the start complaining about their opponents and their bidding, particularly when their complain is worse than their defensive mistake! Notice, I didn't place blame for not reaching 4S, but it is fully on the 5-5 black hand. After 3S, there is no good argument for anything other than 4S. Even I would have bid 4S. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 How the **** is W suppose to know whether E had this hand or Qxxxx ATx KQ Kxx or AKxxx Jxx Kx Kxx ? Why would anyone sane want to play 4♠ with these collections? While I agree with your main argument, wouldn't East just raise 2NT to 3NT with each of these hands; not bothering to bid 3C on the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 While I agree with your main argument, wouldn't East just raise 2NT to 3NT with each of these hands; not bothering to bid 3C on the way? Yes he would. But you can change his hand and make it Axxxx Kx K Kxxxx if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 Yes he would. But you can change his hand and make it Axxxx Kx K Kxxxx if you want. This has always been somewhat of an Achilles' heel for me, in that, especially in club games, when the opponents went out of their way to indicate their weakest suit and afterwards still bid NT, I tended to mentally give them a holding that justified their bidding, which was usually wrong. Over the years, this led to my partner, Bob, introducing me to a lot of different opening lead approaches ( :P ) including attitude leads, 3&5, etc. Perhaps Kaitlyn has had the same problem as I remember her introducing leads into the thread. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 This has always been somewhat of an Achilles' heel for me, in that, especially in club games, when the opponents went out of their way to indicate their weakest suit and afterwards still bid NT, I tended to mentally give them a holding that justified their bidding, which was usually wrong. Over the years, this led to my partner, Bob, introducing me to a lot of different opening lead approaches ( :P ) including attitude leads, 3&5, etc. Perhaps Kaitlyn has had the same problem as I remember her introducing leads into the thread. ;)Actually I think it was you that inspired me to introduce leads into this thread. You mentioned a Bols bridge tip which made me think about the card partner would have led in each scenario that mattered. When these problems come up I always am reminded of Bob Hamman's Bols Bridge Tip:‘If you ever to amount to anything at this game, you must build up a picture of the unseen hands. The idea is to know what the problem is before you try to solve it.’ When I saw this, I realized that I had to create my example consistent with my partner's lead, as that is one of the unseen hands. I came to the (apparently erroneous) conclusion that partner wouldn't lead the ♥3 when it was right for me to play diamonds. However, Kit Woolsey led the ♥3 (or ♥Q) on BridgeWinners. If I'm playing with him, I would have a really hard time telling hi that I failed to beat 3NT because he made a terrible lead! But nonetheless, your tip was quite valuable as I was not imagining partner's hand but only declarer's, and that's just bad bridge. Timo brought up another reason to consider partner's hand - he eschews the diamond switch because partner should have overcalled 1H when the diamond switch is right. So ironically, this thread might have been much shorter if you had not mentioned that Bols Bridge Tip which caused me to stir up a hornet's nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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