strong deck - part 1

[manudude03]

[hv=pc=n&s=shakj3dkj76caq865&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1d]133|200[/hv]

 

This came up in a recent robot tourney, IMPs scoring. What's your plan here?

[MrAce]

All options are flawed but 2♣ or 1♥ are the ones I hate less among others.. I would go with 2♣ for two reasons; (despite the fact that I am not fan of 2/1 overcalls with 5 card suit)

1. It makes it harder for W to bid and/or show spade suit effectively over 2♣. Which may prevent the auction to be jammed up before my 2nd turn comes.
2. It is my longer suit.

[steve2005]

With human I would double. Gib handles these auctions horribly so stumped.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=shakj3dkj76caq865&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1d]133|200|

This came up in a recent robot tourney, IMPs scoring. What's your plan here?[/hv]

Horrible decision but I rank

1. Pass = NAT. Likely to get a chance to double ♠s later.
2. Double = T/O. If partner bids 1/2/3♠s, then bid 3N, put your cards back in board, and start entering contract on your card.
3. 2N = UNT. Owing a ♥.
4. 1♥ = NAT. Extra high cards might compensate for length.
5. 2♣ = NAT. Might get a chance to double opponents in ♠s.

[cartruck]

Unusual 2NT. Don't like any bid really, but at that vulnerability we need to be in game.

[johnu]

With human I would double. Gib handles these auctions horribly so stumped.

 

I would never make an offshape takeout double playing with GIB. The chances of having a high level disaster are much too high.

[geoffff]

A number of issues go through my head:

1. Bidding with GIBs can be a bit fraught as ordinary bids or doubles are sometimes misinterpreted and trying to put things right always seem to lead to bidding getting out of control.

2. Max of 10 points between W and N so no great support expected.

3. At least 2 of Q ♥, Q ♦ and K♣ should be to your right, but you are likely to be leading from hand most of the time which may nullify this advantage.

4. East doesn't have a 5 card major so may be 10 between W and N. Thus distribution may be tricky all round.

In view of above, don't get carried away with enthusiasm.

[gszes]

too scary to pass at imps 1nt and x can lead to huge spade headaches. 2c seems normal but leaves little room for exploration and if p bids spades leaves us poorly placed for a continuation. 1h leaves all kinds of room for exploration and will rarely lead to a horrific contract so it seems to be the best overall choice.

[PhilG007]

[hv=pc=n&s=shakj3dkj76caq865&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1d]133|200[/hv]

 

This came up in a recent robot tourney, IMPs scoring. What's your plan here?

My acute sense of danger tells me to pass. West has not yet bid and for me that

means a red light is flashing. West could have huge strength and any overcall by South

is highly dangerous and could result in a huge doubled penalty. There is a time and a place for taking risks but not here.

If West is weak and also passes,trust partner to keep the bidding open with a takeout double.

[cartruck]

My acute sense of danger tells me to pass. West has not yet bid and for me that

means a red light is flashing. West could have huge strength and any overcall by South

is highly dangerous and could result in a huge doubled penalty. There is a time and a place for taking risks but not here.

If West is weak and also passes,trust partner to keep the bidding open with a takeout double.

 

I respectfully disagree. With that distribution it is likely even after only the opening bid that E/W has at the very least a nice save in some suit to be down 2 or less, and you are sitting on a power hand vulnerable. 2 stoppers in ♦, 18 HCP, and 2 suited after diamonds with AKJx in one and AQ8xx (8 is a card worthy of noting) in other.

 

At favorable vulnerability, you and your partner need to be in game. Period. Gutless, scared bidding rarely (if ever) wins a National Tournament with a chance to play in the World Olympiads. Which is mine and my father's goal.

 

Unusual 2NT is definitely the bid here. And I am the only one that voted for it. lmao

 

The last thing I want my partner to do is come in guns blazing with their spade suit. But that is exactly how most of you all here directed the bidding to go. You know he/she has spades. You know they are going to bid them. You don't want them to. Stop it immediately with Unusual 2NT. You should be controlling the bidding anyway with that hand.

[eagles123]

I respectfully disagree. With that distribution it is likely even after only the opening bid that E/W has at the very least a nice save in some suit to be down 2 or less, and you are sitting on a power hand vulnerable. 2 stoppers in ♦, 18 HCP, and 2 suited after diamonds with AKJx in one and AQ8xx (8 is a card worthy of noting) in other.

 

At favorable vulnerability, you and your partner need to be in game. Period. Gutless, scared bidding rarely (if ever) wins a National Tournament with a chance to play in the World Olympiads. Which is mine and my father's goal.

Unusual 2NT is definitely the bid here. And I am the only one that voted for it. lmao

The last thing I want my partner to do is come in guns blazing with their spade suit. But that is exactly how most of you all here directed the bidding to go. You know he/she has spades. You know they are going to bid them. You don't want them to. Stop it immediately with Unusual 2NT. You should be controlling the bidding anyway with that hand.

 

the fact you're the only one that voted for it should probably give u an indication that it's not "definitely the bid"

 

It's great to have new people join the forum but please realise there are some very good players on here (not me) and if literally no one is agreeing with your 2N bid there is a good reason for it.

 

eagles

[cartruck]

the fact you're the only one that voted for it should probably give u an indication that it's not "definitely the bid"

 

I'm an expert from way back and my father used to play professionally and owned the #1 bridge club in North America at one time in Tamarac, FL that took over Jourdans in Boca Raton, FL for that honor. He agrees with me. You may want to listen.

 

My father was also on the Board of Directors for the Florida Bridge Unit that was the largest in the US at the time. Not sure if it still is or not. Beat an incumbent lady of 30+ years, and when he won it was announced while he was playing against Jeff Meckstroth and Eric Rodwell in Tampa, FL at a Regional Tournament. They are his friends too. Like I said, you may want to listen.

 

"Do Your Best and Finesse the Rest" was his campaign slogan and I still have one of his high quality refrigerator magnets to prove it. We are that good. Always.

[cartruck]

You can not find one out of 10,000 people better at numbers than I am. I don't need a calculator.

 

I, on the other hand, am actively looking to have conversations with those 1 out of 10,000 that are better than I am. I make mistakes every time I play. Not many, but I do recognize when I did. When you know you made a mistake every single time you do, that's when you are truly an expert at my favorite game, Bridge.

[rmnka447]

2 ♣ - got to bid something and the ♠ hole is too much to recover from after partner's likely ♠ response.

[cartruck]

2 ♣ - got to bid something and the ♠ hole is too much to recover from after partner's likely ♠ response.

 

But, your 2♣ bid only entices your partner to bid spades, that you already know he has, and you don't want him to bid that. Why not entice him to tell you a little more, like any other suit? How can I be the only person that sees Unusual 2NT is the best bid here? Is it the different systems people play?

[GrahamJson]

I think that the reason that no other chose 2NT is because, for most, this shows an offensive hand whereas this one is very defensive. If the auction becomes competitive it is highly likely that partner will do wrong thing, such as making a phantom sacrifice.

 

As for the risk of partner getting carried away in spades, that doesn't seem too likely if you make a simple overcall. You can rebid NT once or twice after which he should realise the situation. Similarly if oppo compete in spades it is likely to be to their disappointment as partner may well hold a trump stack.

 

If put to an expert panel my guess is that they would be split between 1H and double. Experts seem less concerned about doubling on off centre hands if they are strong enough.

[eagles123]

I think that the reason that no other chose 2NT is because, for most, this shows an offensive hand whereas this one is very defensive. If the auction becomes competitive it is highly likely that partner will do wrong thing, such as making a phantom sacrifice.

 

As for the risk of partner getting carried away in spades, that doesn't seem too likely if you make a simple overcall. You can rebid NT once or twice after which he should realise the situation. Similarly if oppo compete in spades it is likely to be to their disappointment as partner may well hold a trump stack.

 

If put to an expert panel my guess is that they would be split between 1H and double. Experts seem less concerned about doubling on off centre hands if they are strong enough.

 

I tried - I really wouldn't bother

[cartruck]

I think that the reason that no other chose 2NT is because, for most, this shows an offensive hand whereas this one is very defensive. If the auction becomes competitive it is highly likely that partner will do wrong thing, such as making a phantom sacrifice.

 

As for the risk of partner getting carried away in spades, that doesn't seem too likely if you make a simple overcall. You can rebid NT once or twice after which he should realise the situation. Similarly if oppo compete in spades it is likely to be to their disappointment as partner may well hold a trump stack.

 

If put to an expert panel my guess is that they would be split between 1H and double. Experts seem less concerned about doubling on off centre hands if they are strong enough.

 

This is an offensive hand with game nearly assured somewhere, while the opponents are in prime save situation. Push the bidding, get to your game contract and be happy.

[MrAce]

I'm an expert from way back and my father used to play professionally and owned the #1 bridge club in North America at one time in Tamarac, FL that took over Jourdans in Boca Raton, FL for that honor. He agrees with me. You may want to listen.

 

My father was also on the Board of Directors for the Florida Bridge Unit that was the largest in the US at the time. Not sure if it still is or not. Beat an incumbent lady of 30+ years, and when he won it was announced while he was playing against Jeff Meckstroth and Eric Rodwell in Tampa, FL at a Regional Tournament. They are his friends too. Like I said, you may want to listen.

 

"Do Your Best and Finesse the Rest" was his campaign slogan and I still have one of his high quality refrigerator magnets to prove it. We are that good. Always.

 

Rowland tried to tell you that you probably made an overstatement by saying "definitely the bid" when you are the only one to vote for 2 NT.

 

1. You being son of a former professional player has no relevance to the point he made.
2. Your father owning a biggest bridge club in NA once upon a time has no relevance to the point he made.
3. Your father being BOD in FL has no relevance to the point he made.
4. Your father having played vs Meckwell has no relevance to the point he made.
5. Your father being friend with Meckwell has no relevance to the point he made.
6. Your father's campaign slogan and "high quality refrigerator magnet" which somehow shows how good you guys are, has no relevance to the point he made.
7. Your father and his agreement with you has no relevance to the point he made.
8. How good you are with numbers and that you do not need a calculator, has no relevance to the point he made.

Now, all of these things that you felt the necessity of listing can be related to only and only one thing and I do not need to be shrink to say what it relates to. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

 

 

The last thing I want my partner to do is come in guns blazing with their spade suit. But that is exactly how most of you all here directed the bidding to go. You know he/she has spades. You know they are going to bid them. You don't want them to. Stop it immediately with Unusual 2NT. You should be controlling the bidding anyway with that hand.

 

Now back to bridge....If you and your father has a weird idea that says "overcalling 2♣ directs partner into doing some guns blazing with a bad suit for the rest of the auction" then you and your father should seriously reconsider about wasting your time and money for nationals and Bridge Olympiads! No! 2♣ overcall does not promise spades, it never did, it never will! And bidding 2 NT NEVER meant "Partner, you are banned from bidding spades!" It never did , it never will! What is funniest among all the things that you spilled and I am still laughing, is your ability to see your partner's hand! Your partner and your LHO has EXACTLY the same odds of having spades, and LHO bids before your pd. Yet you wrote "He/She has spades" and for some reason known to you and GOD only, it will be our pd who will "come in guns blazing with spade suit"!!

 

And even if we all agree for the sake of argument that it will be our pd who will bid spades first and will not let us play 3 NT and bid spades again at 4 level, despite the fact that I did not even promise one single spade in my hand, so what? The way you talk someone who did not see your hand would think your hand can not tolerate anything BUT ♥ or ♣ as trump! Are you ****ing kidding me? You have AKJx ♥ and AQxxx♣ ffs! If your pd is not leaving you in 3 NT pd has at least KQT9xxx xx xx xx. and your most likely game, if any, is in spades!

 

About your comment on you being expert...You are delusional!

 

I, on the other hand, am actively looking to have conversations with those 1 out of 10,000 that are better than I am

No! What you should be actively looking to do is to get your head out of your @ $$, ASAP!

 

Oh! And welcome to the forums, Rob!

[manudude03]

If your pd is not leaving you in 3 NT pd has at least KQT9xxx xx xx xx. and your most likely game, if any, is in spades!

 

Oh you are going to laugh when you see the full hand :)

[MrAce]

Oh you are going to laugh when you see the full hand :)

 

Oh I know that or you would not ask this here. I am behind what I wrote regardless of how funny pd bids.

 

FWIW, here is the poll I set for this hand in BW where a lot of experts and world class players vote.

 

http://bridgewinners.com/article/view/bidding-problem-2-okt5btfoxu/

[GrahamJson]

This is tricky, but my choice is 1H. It looks like a hand where there is no rush, but the most likely game is 4H. Give RHO a minimum and you still need partner to have almost all of the outstanding cards for game to be on, unless he has a perfect fit (QH, KC plus trump length). And as Bobby Wolff (no relation) said; "Don't play me for perfect cards partner, I never have them."

[miamijd]

If you pass, you are very likely to end up defending 1D. This risks (A)finding partner with 7+ out of the likely 10 or so HCP left between partner and LHO and missing game and (B) finding the opponents with a diamond fit, your side with a heart or club fit, and going minus when you should have gone plus.

 

As for what to bid, I chose the slight underbid of 2C (my diamond cards and spade void don't seem so attractive), but X and 1H are also possible. I don't like 2NT, because it forces you to the 3-level on a hand that might be a gigantic misfit all around.

 

Cheers,

mike

[gamingrams]

I am curious at what point everyone lost the main point of the original poll. You are playing in a BOT Tourney!

 

All of the lovely discussions about what your "human" partner will do are clever but superfluous. Bots bid on their own systems and do not have calculators.

[GrahamJson]

I've never played with bots so I don't know their foibles. I guess that they take each bid as "text book" which I imagine means that a TOX is definitely out and maybe also 1H. Perhaps Pass becomes the best choice as it reduces the risk of a not partner getting carried away.