Bidding Problems for I/N/A players Part 25

[Kaitlyn S]

Hi - these problems should be very easy for experienced players but an I/N player needs to think about the right things in an auction. If you get them wrong, don't feel too bad as long as you understand the rationale for the answers. I'll provide the answers later but I'll put a hint as a spoiler. Try to solve the problem without the spoiler. Also, let me know if you would be interested in seeing more of these from time to time.

 

Assume you are playing Standard American (a natural system with 15-17 1NT openings and 5-card majors), matchpoints, and nobody is vulnerable. You are playing negative doubles through 4H.

 

Sometimes partner makes a call that you just don't expect in that situation, or that is mind boggling. When this happens, you have to think about what could possibly make him want to take that action.

 

Jerry Helms as an acronym ASBAF - all strange bids are forcing. We might see a couple of exceptions to that here!

 

I think this set is one of my trickiest sets. I wanted to name it "WT* is partner doing?" but didn't want to run afoul of the censorship police.

 

 

1.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa974hda83cak9865&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1c1hppd2d4np5sp7hp?]133|200[/hv]

 

What would possess partner to pass over 1H with the strength to bid Blackwood?

 

 

 

 

2.

[hv=pc=n&s=s7542hk86dt965c93&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1dp1sd2sp3s6cp?]133|200[/hv]

 

Why didn't partner just bid 6C the first time?

 

 

 

 

3.

[hv=pc=n&s=shak5d97643cakqjt&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=3h3s4h4sdp?]133|200[/hv]

This hand is IMP scoring.

 

How can partner double with an opening preempt when you might not even have a good hand?

 

 

 

 

4.

[hv=pc=n&s=sq53h9dakj65cakq4&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d1spp2cp2hp?]133|200[/hv]

 

Why didn't partner make a negative double?

 

 

 

 

5.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa5hqt9643d7ckq82&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1s2n3hp4hpp5cdpp5dpp?]133|200[/hv]

East's 2NT showed at least five clubs and five diamonds and is usually weak.

 

Whose hand is it? Why couldn't partner double 5D?

 

 

 

 

6.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa74hqt7632djt54c&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1hp2cp2hp2sp?]133|200[/hv]

 

Do you know partner's exact distribution? You should! Eliminate the impossible distributions.

 

[ahydra]

These seem rather tough for I/N! In particular, partner is perpetrating actions he really shouldn't be opposite a less-experienced player (or even with any player :P)

 

Here's my take:

 

 

 

1) Partner has a bucketload of hearts apparently - but is it enough to survive a 5-x split? I mean, if he has AKQJ10xx then West has overcalled on five to the 9 (or psyched); perhaps he has AKQJ9x(x) and is relying on being able to finesse against the 10. He must also have some outside strength somewhere. I'll bid 7NT. If it turns out partner has ♠Kx ♥AKQJ10xx ♦xx ♣xx and we needed to play 7H to ruff out the clubs, I'll apologise, tell partner that he can use 5NT to ask for kings (and that West can still have 6 hearts!), and possibly congratulate West on his successful psyche.

 

2) Partner has hearts and clubs, probably 4-7 (with 5+-5+ would he not just bid 2D or 2NT?) His clubs should be longer for the 6C bid. I don't see any reason to take it out really; ok, 6H scores more at MPs, but partner might well have just four hearts. In general when partner leaps to the 6-level all by himself this is not the time to be masterminding.

 

3) Partner's shown a maximum pre-empt, so must have stuff outside given our heart holding. He might have ♠Ax ♥QJ9xxxx ♦Qx ♣xx for example. Tough decision overall - it would be silly to go down in 5H when partner has xxx diamonds - but I think I'd lean towards bidding on, and would bid 5C since if partner has a diamond control we can likely make slam.

 

4) Partner has apparently got a bucketload of spades and/or weak hearts. (Depends on style but say with ♠AK9x ♥xxxxxx ♦x ♣Jx I'd stil prefer to negX rather than try for a 1-level penalty which isn't likely to be profitable) We could try 3NT here just on values.

 

5) Surely we don't expect I/N players to have agreements about forcing passes?! Anyway, I would think pass is forcing here (but do we play any kind of UvU?). And WTF is west doing, a) not pre-empting immediately, and b) not bidding 4NT if he has both minors? And just how many clubs are in this pack?!

 

I honestly can't build up a layout that fits the bidding. For West's bidding to make any sense he must have something like 4144, but that gives partner a club void and yet he's doubled 5C rather than made a forcing pass. If West was only 3-3 in the minors then he'd have perhaps 5233 but that doesn't seem like the kind of hand you want to sac on, and it still gives partner only one club. Based on "the 5-level belongs to the opponents" and the fact that West and/or partner appears to have gone insane, I'll X and take the money.

 

6) I give up. WTF is 2S? 3136 - but why bid 2S rather than pass? 3046/3145 - then why not bid 2D since partner is clearly strong, else he would pass 2H or rebid 3C? My best guess is 3136, maximum for 2C, trying to sneak 3NT on subpar values but has no diamond control: ♠AJ10 ♥x ♦xxx ♣AKQxxx. We don't have anywhere near enough to be bidding game on this horrible misfit but now partner's really stuffed us up. 3C probably has the best chance of getting partner to stop mucking around and landing us in something playable. 2NT might be a viable alternative if we can be sure partner will expect us to bid 3NT with a max.

 

 

 

ahydra

[Kaitlyn S]

These seem rather tough for I/N! In particular, partner is perpetrating actions he really shouldn't be opposite a less-experienced player (or even with any player :P)

My favorite partner perpetrated #6 opposite me! It's said that they don't ring an alarm clock at the bridge table when you have to really think about the situation, but partner's 2S bid is as close to an alarm clock as I've ever seen.

 

And I might agree that these are too tough for I/N. There is only one of them that I would give to an intermediate (i.e. advanced beginners) class.

[smerriman]

On #2:

 

Partner has (at least) 4 hearts missing the King. Surely he can't have a loser outside of hearts, as otherwise he'd be gambling on a heart finesse that is less than 50%, given East opened the bidding - in fact, significantly less, since he may never be able to lead from my hand anyway even if the K were onside. And he can't really be expecting a trick in my hand. So I'd say 7♣.

 

[Tramticket]

 

 

1. Partner has long solid hearts and only passed initially because she was deprived of her bid. I strongly suspect a psyche. Eight solid hearts + my winners still doesn't come to 13 so 7NT might not have play. I am passing (hoping to set up the club suit through heart ruffs).

2. A very strong single-suited hand will start with a double, so I am inclined to expect partner to have very long and strong clubs. Of course she might have leapt straight to slam and missed the double altogether, so she is probably fishing for seven. I'm tempted to value my k♥ very highly and bid 7♣.

3. Strange double. I'm guessing that partner is trying to warn me not to bid on - she has more defence and less playing strength than I might expect.

4. Either, partner has loads of spades and wanted to defend holding a hand with some values or she has a very weak spade/heart two-suiter and hates both of my suits. I think she might have bid 2♠ with the first hand type, so I think I will pass. Tricky.

5. Partner has made a forcing pass and is denying a suitable hand to double 5♦. West has a near Yarborough and is playing amusing games.I'm bidding 5♥, but I'm tempted to bid 6♥.

6. Partner is surely void in my suit, has six clubs and no more than three spades. So I expect partner to have four diamonds and I bid 3♦. This is the easiest in the set. [No tell me this is the one I got wrong!]

 

[Kaitlyn S]

Very well done, Tramticket! We match on 5 out of 6 (even the fact that I was tempted to bid slam on #5.) And I put #6 last because I thought it was the toughest, but indeed if you think logically it's not that hard.

 

You may be surprised to hear that #4 was the one that I might use in an "intermediate" aka advanced beginner class; indeed when I saw a top teacher teach a class of that level, a hand similar to #4 was used in the class (the lesson had already covered things like taking a preference with nothing when you've passed and partner has offered up two suits.)

[Kaitlyn S]

Answers: (More advanced material in blue - as if some of this isn't advanced :) )

 

1.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa974hda83cak9865&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1c1hppd2d4np5sp7hp?]133|200[/hv]

Hint: What would possess partner to pass over 1H with the strength to bid Blackwood?

 

Answer: North has long, strong hearts, and West is psyching. Partner bid 7H not knowing about your CK and apparently doesn't need it, BUT partner needs an entry to his hand and you don't have any hearts. You should pass 7H.

 

Partner had ten solid hearts and three singletons!

 

2.

[hv=pc=n&s=s7542hk86dt965c93&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1dp1sd2sp3s6cp?]133|200[/hv]

Hint: Why didn't partner just bid 6C the first time?

 

Answer: If partner jumped to 6C the first time, you would assume he was bidding it to make opposite nothing, and you would raise to 7C with the ♣A or ♣K. On this particular auction, your partner must have significant high card strength and yet your opponents are not only both bidding, but are trying for game. Your partner should expect you to have nothing. While partner could have jumped to 6C the first time, I believe the double followed by 6C shows some hearts (probably a four-card suit.) This is not a typical double and correct situation; partner must have some reason for his original double. Of course, you may deduce from the opponents' bidding that partner has hearts, but the responder could have five and the opener could have four, so it's possible that partner has a singleton ace of hearts - but partner would just jump to 6C the first time with a one-loser hand with only one heart.

 

Partner expects to make 6C without the ♥K so he should be able to make 7C with that card. Bid 7C.

 

 

3.

[hv=pc=n&s=shak5d97643cakqjt&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=3h3s4h4sdp?]133|200[/hv]

This hand is IMP scoring.

Hint: How can partner double with an opening preempt when you might not even have a good hand?

Answer: I was afraid that stating that this problem was iMPs might give the solution away.

 

First, let's figure out what partner is doing. We have a pretty good hand, but our side rates to have at most one heart trick, and it's possible we don't take that many clubs. Partner's hearts aren't that good, can partner really have enough defense to set 4H? Does partner have a spade stack and is he doubling to stop us from bidding 5H?

 

Partner shouldn't have that hand. With four good spades and seven hearts, 4H is a better opening bid than 3H. Pass is even a better bid than 3H (as 3H risks missing game or playing in the wrong suit when preemptor has so few losers.)

 

So partner has little defense and is doubling 4S. Why is he doing that?

 

The most rational reason is that partner has a void and expects to beat 4S with a couple of ruffs if you find his void with the opening lead. He is suggesting that you lead a non-heart (and probably a suit preference card for the return.)

 

So if partner's void is in clubs and you lead clubs, you can take three or four club tricks and maybe a heart. If you lead diamonds, OOPS! If partner's void is in diamonds, neither hearts nor clubs are going very far but you'd better get a couple of diamond ruffs and a couple of rounded suit tricks. So if you guess the wrong void, tough luck.

 

You could bid 5H. If partner's void is in diamonds, you make two overtricks. If partner's void is in clubs and the opponents lead diamonds, you're probably down one, but you might survive a different lead.

 

As long as we have to guess partner's void to get the hand right, let's go for the huge IMP gain, let's guess that the void is in diamonds and bid 7H! The suggested bid is 7H, which will make when partner's void is in diamonds. If partner's void is in clubs, and the opponents double and lead a diamond, your score won't be far different than if you had defended 4S doubled and guessed wrong on the lead.

 

4.

[hv=pc=n&s=sq53h9dakj65cakq4&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d1spp2cp2hp?]133|200[/hv]

Hint: Why didn't partner make a negative double?

 

Answer: I forgot to ask the question "Do you agree with your bidding so far?". Answer here:

 

If you double, you emphasize hearts. If you bid notrump, partner will insist on hearts with six small (as his hand could be worthless if hearts aren't trump) and perhaps even with five hearts. You don't need to jump to 3C; it's unlikely that partner has enough for game and couldn't make a negative double, bid 1NT, or raise you diamonds. If partner has "just clubs" and 7 points, he can raise (or might even cuebid with a stronger hand that didn't have enough to bid 2C the first time.)

 

 

You have given partner a choice between clubs and diamonds and partner ignored your choice and bid 2H, knowing that you don't have heart support (if you had three hearts with your clubs and diamonds, you would have reopened with a double.) However, with long hearts and about 6 points, partner can make a negative double, intending to correct to hearts. So partner has long hearts and less than 6 points. You don't have a game, and partner's hand isn't likely to produce tricks if hearts aren't trump. Pass 2H.

 

Partner's hand is S-842 H-QJ86532 D-3 C-75. Partner could even be weaker.

 

I had said that a similar hand was used in an "intermediate" class. The class hand was easier because the bidding went 1D - pass - PASS - 1S.... so that the responder had already denied six points, and there was no reason for the opener to even consider a jump shift since game was totally out of the question.

 

 

 

5.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa5hqt9643d7ckq82&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1s2n3hp4hpp5cdpp5dpp?]133|200[/hv]

East's 2NT showed at least five clubs and five diamonds and is usually weak.

Hint: Whose hand is it? Why couldn't partner double 5D?

 

Answer: Whether you are familiar with forcing passes or not, you should be aware that your side has the majority of strength and you don't want the opponents to play the hand undoubled. So what's going on? Partner doubled 5C and you have four clubs and RHO has five clubs. LHO is clearly playing around - he has no intention on playing in clubs unless you let him play there undoubled. He just threw that 5C stinker bid on a short club suit in the auction to try to confuse your side.

 

Don't be confused. Partner doubled 5C and has some clubs. Partner has heart support. Partner has at least five spades. Partner couldn't double five diamonds so partner is probably also short in diamonds and West likely has five or six diamonds and is hoping that you let him buy the hand for 5D. However, if partner has no wasted values in diamonds, your hand should play quite well in hearts. Bid at least five hearts. I would probably bid 5H but I would give full credit for 6H as it's not unlikely that partner has the ♥AK, ♠K and ♣A, and even the ♥AJ might be enough since the ♥K would likely be with West.

 

 

 

 

6.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa74hqt7632djt54c&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1hp2cp2hp2sp?]133|200[/hv]

Hint: Do you know partner's exact distribution? You should! Eliminate the impossible distributions.

 

Answer: Partner would have rebid 1S with four, so partner has three spades. Partner is giving you an option of playing 2S in case you have four. You should have six hearts for your 2H bid, so with a singleton heart, partner would play the 6-1 heart fit rather than try for an unknown 4-3 spade fit. Also, you can assume that if you don't have four spades (which you usually won't), partner has a fallback, probably clubs. So assume that partner wants you to pass 2S with four, but go back to 3C otherwise. Would partner do this with seven clubs? No, partner would probably just bid 3C with seven clubs rather than give you an option to play a 4-3 spade fit. So partner has exactly three spades, exactly zero hearts, and exactly six clubs, so partner must have exactly four diamonds! Bid 3D and play your 4-4 fit.

 

While this wasn't hard to figure out logically, I have to give very much credit to my partner who figured out during the auction that by bidding 2S, she would be telling me her entire distribution! It's one thing to hear a really strange bid and figure out what it must mean. It's a whole different level of difficulty to think of the bid yourself and realize that partner can work everything out. While I was able to bid 3D with my hand, I think it's pretty unlikely that I would have thought to bid 2S with her hand (something like QJx, ---, Qxxx, AKJxxx.)

[Tramticket]

 

3.

The most rational reason is that partner has a void and expects to beat 4S with a couple of ruffs

 

We all know and use Lightner doubles of slam contracts. I've come across Lightner doubles of five-level contracts. This is the first time I've seen one at the four level. Very neat. :)

[ahydra]

Sorry, but not sure I agree with all these answers.

 

On 2, with a good hand partner may first try to get info out of you, and when that fails just go for the "practical" shot. As I said, if partner jumps to the 6 level on his own it's probably not a good idea to mastermind unless you have significant extras. Partner won't be happy if there are only twelve tricks! (Still, the logic presented is important to consider in all bidding - why did he bid A then B rather than B direct?)

 

On 3, I agree the X shows extra shape (likely a void), but 7H is reckless. My old partner in the UK would harp on about it for weeks on end if I'd jumped to 7H off a cashing ace of diamonds here! Why not just bid 5C to elicit whether partner has a diamond control? Even if opps jam you with 5S, partner should realise what's going on (you're making a slam try) and bid on with a suitable hand. (Notice that you want to be in 6H opposite something like Kx QJxxxxx Kxxx -. Partner's playing it so his DK is protected.)

 

On 4, could partner not have 5-6 in the majors or similar, trying for a penX of spades? Admittedly the given hand type is much more likely.

 

Note also that X doesn't guarantee four hearts. It would be fine to X with a good 1345, for example.

 

On 6, I would pass 2H even with a void unless I had some interest in game (like the hand I gave where you might steal 3NT due to running clubs). When in a misfit, stay low! As such both 2S and 3D should be encouraging in some form (though neither are forcing, as both hands are limited). I think 2S on the given hand is a bit dodgy - even supposing you believe in partner enough to a) figure out you are showing 3046, b) pick the diamond fit or pass 2S when right, and c) not jump to 3NT with a good hand, imagine if partner has 3631 or worse 3730...

 

It's worth noting also that there are some players who could actually have four spades here, for example choosing to rebid AKQxxx clubs rather than 8xxx spades. I'm not saying that's a good style, but it does exist. If responder here suspected partner to be of that school, and to be showing a heart void and saying "pick 2S or 3C", you'd be playing a 3-3 fit.

 

1 and 5 I agree with. One should not always trust opponents' bidding ;). You'd think I might have learnt that after the hand in my profile that happened some years ago (talked out of 6C when an opp bid 4C on a void).

 

Apologies if this sounds overly critical of what is intended to be an educational post. I think there are a lot of partnership-stylistic elements involved in these judgement situations and what may sound right for one player may not for another.

 

ahydra

[sfi]

I agree that #6 is a style thing, and would be likely to pass as opener with a minimum 3-0-4-6. I was picturing something like a 4-0-2-7 or 4-1-1-7 hand with modest extras that is hoping to hit a spade fit on the way to 3C and thought my choices were pass or 3C. I couldn't decide which one I would choose, although your hint pointed me in the direction of what you wanted.

 

I'm also not convinced the answers on some of the others are quite so clear, but that doesn't make the problems any less good. Numbers 1 and 5 also have the excellent theme of trusting partner rather than the opponents.

 

Picturing partner's shape and problem is a skill well worth practicing. Here the alarm clock is fairly obvious, but even recognising when partner has done something weird that you need to work out is a worthwhile skill. And it's not just in bidding - we recently won a match against a good team because I sat there for 5 minutes trying to work out what possessed partner to play the C9 at trick one.

[Kaitlyn S]

Sorry, but not sure I agree with all these answers.

You are quite right to not agree if your partner doesn't follow the bidding rules that I would expect him to. For example:

 

It's worth noting also that there are some players who could actually have four spades here, for example choosing to rebid AKQxxx clubs rather than 8xxx spades. I'm not saying that's a good style, but it does exist. If responder here suspected partner to be of that school, and to be showing a heart void and saying "pick 2S or 3C", you'd be playing a 3-3 fit.

I was picturing something like a 4-0-2-7 or 4-1-1-7 hand with modest extras that is hoping to hit a spade fit on the way to 3C and thought my choices were pass or 3C.

 

You apparently both play with partners who might bury a 4-card spade suit, making all the inferences I made suspect, and making a 3D bid far less attractive. Smerriman and I are on a lot firmer ground that our partners won't have four spades, and once you make that assumption, I think the rest follows. However, you know your partners better than I do. If they would bury a 4-card spade suit to rebid 2C, or if they would try for a 4-3 spade fit ahead of a 7-0 club fit (expecting you to go back to 3C with a singleton), then you are right to disagree with my answer.

 

 

 

On 6, I would pass 2H even with a void unless I had some interest in game (like the hand I gave where you might steal 3NT due to running clubs). When in a misfit, stay low! As such both 2S and 3D should be encouraging in some form (though neither are forcing, as both hands are limited)...

While I agree that it's generally a good policy to stay low with a misfit, if one can trust partner to know your exact distribution and get to the best trump suit any time it's not hearts, I think it's a reasonable shot. Also, when would you be interested in game after having only rebid 2C and hearing partner rebid your void?

 

I was picturing something like a 4-0-2-7 or 4-1-1-7 hand with modest extras that is hoping to hit a spade fit on the way to 3C and thought my choices were pass or 3C.

If partner had 4-7 in the blacks and modest extras, and decided not to bid 1S, wouldn't he jump to 3C on his first rebid?

 

 

 

On 2, with a good hand partner may first try to get info out of you, and when that fails just go for the "practical" shot. As I said, if partner jumps to the 6 level on his own it's probably not a good idea to mastermind unless you have significant extras. Partner won't be happy if there are only twelve tricks!

We all know players who take these shots. They are bidding unsoundly and if bidding 7C and going down one makes partner unhappy, maybe he'll have his bid next time.

 

Let's assume partner is sane. The ♥K should be a useful card. For there to be only twelve tricks, that must mean that partner bid 6C with two likely losers on an auction that has marked you with nothing. He has no right to gamble on you having a single ace or king when he has a powerful hand and the opponents have tried for game. If you trust your partner to be sane, you'll see the value in 7C. If you don't trust partner to be sane, then I would disagree with my 7C bid also.

[Kaitlyn S]

d

On 3, I agree the X shows extra shape (likely a void), but 7H is reckless. My old partner in the UK would harp on about it for weeks on end if I'd jumped to 7H off a cashing ace of diamonds here! Why not just bid 5C to elicit whether partner has a diamond control?

 

Partner might not take 5C as a slam try once you have bid 4H rather than trying for slam earlier. Of course, partner might work out that his double made you consider slam, but a more common interpretation of 5C would be: "Partner, I have a lot of clubs – we are going to 5H but I am telling you this in case they bid 5S to help you decide what to do. If you have a side club fit with me, you may want to reconsider defending and take the save in 6H." I don't think 7H is reckless at all – it makes when partner has a diamond void, or if the opponents don't lead diamonds. That's a lot of IMPs. While you might be risking a small slam if partner has the ♦K, most of the time you will only be risking a game bonus (or maybe a couple of undertricks if there are three cashing diamond tricks for the opponents.)

 

 

 

(Notice that you want to be in 6H opposite something like Kx QJxxxxx Kxxx -. Partner's playing it so his DK is protected.)

I hope my partner wouldn't hold that hand. 3H would be my fourth choice of opening bids on a hand with a losing trick count of 5.

 

On 4, could partner not have 5-6 in the majors or similar, trying for a penX of spades? Admittedly the given hand type is much more likely.

If my partner reopened with a double, I'd be really afraid to defend 1S doubled when I have six hearts and partner has shown hearts. I'll concede that partner has a really tough time with that hand once you bid 2C, for you shouldn't have more than two hearts and are likely to have one. BTW, if I, as opener, had the same shape and 14 points, I would sell to 1S, for there's a missing heart suit out there and it's a lot more likely to be with E-W than with N-S.

 

Note also that X doesn't guarantee four hearts. It would be fine to X with a good 1345, for example.

Why wouldn't responder just raise to 2D (or make a limit raise showing bid if he's too good for 2D) ?

 

Apologies if this sounds overly critical of what is intended to be an educational post. I think there are a lot of partnership-stylistic elements involved in these judgement situations and what may sound right for one player may not for another.

ahydra

No reason to be sorry – I appreciate all constructive criticism, and in fact, changed my last problem set for the better because you found a flaw in my analysis. Thanks! You will note in many of my problem sets that people will disagree, and many of the issues are based on the fact that people bid differently in different parts of the world, and I am compelled to concede that while my answers are sound for prevailing bidding practices in the USA, they might not apply elsewhere because my assumptions about alternative possible sequences are inconsistent with bidding practices in other regions of the world.

 

Then, of course, there's always the chance that I just messed up, and would be quite pleased at being told that so I could fix the solution before many others saw it :D

[Nabooba]

"What would possess partner to pass over 1H with the strength to bid Blackwood?"

temporary insanity perhaps. By the way, the x on hand 1 is appalling. Bid 1S

[Nabooba]

Furthermore the person who bid 2H on board 6 should seriously contemplate giving up Bridge.

No, you do NOT know partner's exact distribution.

Give opener the following or similar

xxxx void Kx AKJTxxx and the bidding is totally normal. As you see, 2H is very poor bid.

[sfi]

If partner had 4-7 in the blacks and modest extras, and decided not to bid 1S, wouldn't he jump to 3C on his first rebid?

 

By "modest extras" I was trying to suggest a hand not quite worth jumping to 3C, but is willing to rebid 3C over 2H in the actual auction and wants to show spades along the way.

 

Not a large subset of all possible hands, I admit. But then, it is an odd bid in the first place.

[sfi]

"What would possess partner to pass over 1H with the strength to bid Blackwood?"

temporary insanity perhaps. By the way, the x on hand 1 is appalling. Bid 1S

 

You're not really into this partnership thing, are you? X of 1H is totally normal, and if the only thing you ascribe partner's bidding to is "temporary insanity", you're going to miss out on good results on hands like the ones posted.

 

Furthermore the person who bid 2H on board 6 should seriously contemplate giving up Bridge.

 

Maybe, but not because of the 2H call.

[Kaitlyn S]

Furthermore the person who bid 2H on board 6 should seriously contemplate giving up Bridge.

No, you do NOT know partner's exact distribution.

Give opener the following or similar

xxxx void Kx AKJTxxx and the bidding is totally normal. As you see, 2H is very poor bid.

How do you feel about S-10 7 2, H- K Q 8 5 4 3, D - Q 9 6 4, C- void?

 

For I happened to run across this gem in the December 2013 Bidding Box.

 

The decent pair who plays Standard (2/1) who was invited to bid these hands had the auction 1C-1H-2C-2H-P. (The other pair played Precision and got to 3C.)

 

The Bridge Bulletin suggested auction is 1C-1H-2C-2H-P (for a poor result.)

 

Maybe those people at Horn Lake (ACBL Headquarters) should all give up bridge?

 

The companion hand in the Bidding Box was S-QJ4, H-void D-J1032, C-AKQ954.

 

Plus, I disagree that the bidding is very normal. Most partners would never find the spade fit if you didn't rebid spades. This hand looks like you have the same number of losers in spades or clubs if you have a 4-4 spade fit, and if that number is 3, then you want to be in 4S, and bidding 2C precludes that, unless you can find a partner that thinks like yourself.

 

There's a reason to bid 1S on your example hand which was xxxx, -, Kx, AKJTxxx.

 

If partner has Axxx, Kxxxx, Qxx, x, you want to be in 4S but partner passes your 2C rebid.

 

Even if partner has xxxx, Axxx, Axxx, x, you want to be in 4S. Partner will move over a 1S rebid but will pass a 2C rebid. You can see that 4S has reasonable play on a 3-2 split but 5C is a disaster.

 

It's not only when responder has short clubs that bidding spades might be helpful. Give responder:

QJxx, Jxxx, Ax, Qxx. Partner will pass 2C (the doubleton diamond doesn't help in 3NT and you don't have enough for 5C) but with an apparently decent-fitting 8-loser hand, will probably raise a 1S rebid to 3S. Is the ace more likely to be in hearts? Sure. QJxx, AJxx, xx, Qxx. Same deal - you play 2C, my partner raises my 1S to 3S and I bid game on my 5 loser hand. The opponents are likely to lead a diamond regardless of who has the ace, but if not, a diamond loser goes on the ♥A and I just need to hold the trump losers to two.

 

Admittedly, if partner doesn't have four spades, your 2C bid will work out well because expert defenders will misdefend and then grumble about how they were fixed by a bidder unfamiliar with the basics, but they won't respect you.

 

However, I am not gong to suggest that you give up Bridge. I'm going to suggest instead that you be open to more mainstream bidding ideas, which will open up a whole new world of partners for you.

[Kaitlyn S]

Furthermore the person who bid 2H on board 6 should seriously contemplate giving up Bridge.

No, you do NOT know partner's exact distribution.

Give opener the following or similar

xxxx void Kx AKJTxxx and the bidding is totally normal. As you see, 2H is very poor bid.

Also, you are constructing the hand to fit your narrative. Let's see what happens if I do the same.

 

6.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa74hqt7632djt54c&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1hp2cp2hp2sp?]133|200[/hv]

 

N has: S-65 H-J9 D-KQ3 C-AQ7632. A perfectly normal 2C rebid, wouldn't you say? You pass 2C and lose a spade,two hearts, a diamond, at least two clubs, probably more. In 2H, which partner will pass, I lose 1S, 2H, 1D.

 

Yeah, it was kind of unfair to give myself the jack of hearts (but not nearly as unfair as your example.) Let's give you some better clubs.

 

N has: S-K65 H-83 D-Q8 C-AKJ654. Better? Okay, in 2C, on a 4-3 split you lose 2C (I'm putting the queen with four where it is more likely), 2D, 2H, and 1S. Down two - but probably you get your spade loser off on a diamond if they don't lead spades for down one.) How do I do in 2H? I lose 3H and 2D. One spade and one diamond go on the ♣AK. Dang - 2H is better again!

 

Of course, there are some that demand that a raise of one heart shows four cards, and would be compelled to rebid 2C on:

S-K6 H-K93 D-75 C-AQ6543. Here in clubs, you rate to lose three trumps, two diamonds, and least a heart and maybe a heart ruff!

In hearts, I can trump a spade and maybe a diamond as well unless the opponents are kind enough to find the trumps for me. I might lose two hearts (if unlucky) and two diamonds.

 

Please be aware that I am not trying to show you up. Although I am not an expert, I have a lot of experience, and have done much reading of bridge material, and like to teach the game (as evident by these problem threads.) If you choose to, you can learn from my experience and from the experience of other teachers, decent players, and experienced players. Or you can assume that you are always right in the face of overwhelming evidence implying otherwise. I hope you choose the former.

[Nabooba]

Firstly sfi, lets look at the hand that passed. A x may be "perfectly normal" for you. It is not normal for me with this extra shape and strength. You appear to have the idea that if there is an overcall and it is passed back to opener that this is forcing for opener to bid again. This is a commonly held belief among some players and is totally incorrect. If opener has H length or the incorrect shape, why should she re open? You might end up playing a slam hand, (in this case), in a 1 level undoubled part score. Is this result a good one? Your partnership comment is not understandable to me. All of regular partners with whom I play bid the same way with these holdings. What a random pickup partner does is ....well, who knows?

 

Secondly the 2H bid. I assume you are aware of the dictum to get out of misfits as quickly as possible? The H bidder has a c void in a suit that is opened and rebid. Most likely the C length is 6, (though for some who open 1C on 3145 there is no guarantee of this). The H suit, while 6 cards in length, is tatty. The best shot is to pass 2C and get out as quickly as possible. Moreover, are you and the op aware that many play a rebid of a suit here as at least semi constructive? I guess not, as this H suit and this hand cannot be considered constructive. Kaitlyn suggests 7 2, H- K Q 8 5 4 3, D - Q 9 6 4, C- void as a hand posted in some bulletin. Kaitlyn, there is a world of difference in the quality of this H suit and in the quality of QT to 6. Bidding 2H on the latter in the original hand you posted is truly dreadful and reeks of panic. "Oh, I have a C void. I must bid something." Kaitlyn you will learn that Bridge is not about finding the best possible contract, but rather the best contract possible. Opposite my posted hand with a weakish 3 5 5 0 or similar responder may well pass 1S, as many here, (not me I hasten to add as I play this sequence as forcing), play it as nf. Do you like your trump fit?

[Kaitlyn S]

Firstly sfi, lets look at the hand that passed. A x maybe "perfectly normal" for you. It is not normal for me with this extra shape and strength. You appear to have the idea that if there is an overcall and it is passed back to opener that this is forcing for opener to bid again. This is a commonly held belief among some players and is totally incorrect. If opener has H length or the incorrect shape, why should she re open? You might end up playing a slam hand, (in this case), in a 1 level undoubled part score.

 

Secondly the 2H bid. I assume you are aware of the dictum to get out of misfits as quickly as possible? The H bidder has a c void in a suit that is opened and rebid. Most likely the C length is 6, (though for some who open 1C on 3145 there is no guarantee of this). The H suit, while 6 cards in length, is tatty. The best shot is to pass 2C and get out as quickly as possible. Moreover, are you and the op aware that many play a rebid of a suit here as at least semi constructive? I guess not, as this H suit and this hand can barely be considered constructive. Kaitlyn suggests 7 2, H- K Q 8 5 4 3, D - Q 9 6 4, C- void as a hand posted in some bulletin. Kaitlyn, there is a world of difference in the quality of this H suit and in the quality of QT to 6. Bidding 2H on the latter in the original hand you posted is truly dreadful. Kaitlyn you will learn that Bridge is not about finding the best possible contract, but rather the best contract possible.

Opposite my posted hand with a weakish 3 5 5 0 responder may well pass 1S as many here, (not me I hasten to add), play it as nf. Do you like your trump fit?

I thought you were new but now I think you're just trolling. If you can convince me that you're not trolling, I'll respond to your posts.

 

That being said, your points aren't totally without merit (which is why I discarded the premise that you're new.) However, I think you're misapplying them, but I think you already know that.

 

Just for fun, I'll ask a friend to post this question on BridgeWinners.

[sfi]

I thought you were new but now I think you're just trolling. If you can convince me that you're not trolling, I'll respond to your posts.

 

That was my thinking as well. S/he finds an impressive number of straw man arguments to fight against in my two-line response, while missing the main point entirely.

 

Given that none of them has anything to do with the original problems, I'm done.

[Nabooba]

Trolling? That conclusion is up to you. I am pointing out that your arguments and bidding are badly flawed. While your intentions are good, you should think through what you post here.

[Kaitlyn S]

Trolling? That conclusion is up to you. I am pointing out that your arguments and bidding are badly flawed. While your intentions are good, you should think through what you post here.

Well, we're both going to get a shock. So far, on BridgeWinners, 2H (on QTxxxx) is ahead of Pass 6 to 4.

 

I'm shocked that 2H isn't almost unanimous. If you're not trolling (and I have to give you the benefit of the doubt simply because there are bridge players voting to pass 2C), you're probably shocked that 2H is getting any votes at all.

[Nabooba]

"you're probably shocked that 2H is getting any votes at all."

Not really. Like most fora, the posters are a mixed bag. There are only a few experts who post. Of those who opted for 2h only J. Donn surprises me as he is mostly sound. I guess we all have our off days.

[Kaitlyn S]

"you're probably shocked that 2H is getting any votes at all."

Not really. Like most fora, the posters are a mixed bag. There are only a few experts who post. Of those who opted for 2h only J. Donn surprises me as he is mostly sound. I guess we all have our off days.

When I went to bed, 2H was ahead 11-6. Now it's 28-7, so while I was sleeping, 2H got 17 votes (presumably from the experts coming home from their tournaments) and pass got 1.

 

I asked Paul to post the case for 2H (which apparently got posted after most of these votes were in.) He added his own comment at the end (the traitor :D)

 

The case for 2H: The expected trump length in 2C is about 6.4 and the expected trump length in 2H is almost 8. Also, pass is final; 2H is not final since if partner really prefers clubs, he can go back to 3C, or perhaps bid 2S showing 3-0-4-6.

 

One upside for pass is that it's a lot harder to double 2C when repsonder can be unlimited than it is to double 2H when both partners are limited.