Do you open the bidding playing 2/1?

[Kaitlyn S]

I'd appreciate if this poll was answered by players that play 2/1, that either sometimes play SAYC or think they know standard bidding well, and don't think that their opening bids when playing 2/1 are influenced by sometimes playing a strong club system.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa9754h6dqj85ca62]133|100[/hv]

 

This is a hand under a quiz in a new book intended to teach 2/1 GF to players who play Standard. The heading of the quiz is "Opening Bids in 2 over 1." I'm doing a reality check because I disagree with the author.

 

1. Do you open this hand?

 

2. While you may make the same opening call with this hand whether you play 2/1 or standard bidding, is there a hand in which you would open in 2/1 and not in Standard (or vice versa)? A "No" response indicates that your opening bid would never be influenced by whether you were playing 2/1 or Standard.

[MrAce]

I'd appreciate if this poll was answered by players that play 2/1, that either sometimes play SAYC or think they know standard bidding well, and don't think that their opening bids when playing 2/1 are influenced by sometimes playing a strong club system.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa9754h6dqj85ca62]133|100[/hv]

 

This is a hand under a quiz in a new book intended to teach 2/1 GF to players who play Standard. The heading of the quiz is "Opening Bids in 2 over 1." I'm doing a reality check because I disagree with the author.

 

1. Do you open this hand?

 

2. While you may make the same opening call with this hand whether you play 2/1 or standard bidding, is there a hand in which you would open in 2/1 and not in Standard (or vice versa)? A "No" response indicates that your opening bid would never be influenced by whether you were playing 2/1 or Standard.

 

1-Always, auto, on any seat and any colors.

 

2-No

[Winstonm]

I pass as the hand lacks the good intermediates that support the playing strength of a weaker hand. Doesn't matter the system.

[silvr bull]

I pass the OP hand in either system. When I must choose between bidding more or less, I usually bid less until I can limit my hand, and then bid more if there is opportunity later. If I open this hand, partner will always expect more than I have, because I could hardly have less. If I open 1S and partner responds with a forcing 2H, I don't know how to tell partner that my hand got worse and I wish I hadn't opened.

[eagles123]

looks like a totally normal opening bid to me!

[Tramticket]

I won't take part in the poll - I usually play four-card majors and a weak NT.

 

This shape is awkward, since a two heart response gives me an ugly rebid (playing a strong NT you can presumably rebid 2NT). But I still probably open.

[steve2005]

This shape is awkward, since a two heart response gives me an ugly rebid (playing a strong NT you can presumably rebid 2NT). But I still probably open.

Some versions of 2/1 you can rebid 2♠ with 5+ cards and a minimum.

[sfi]

This shape is awkward, since a two heart response gives me an ugly rebid (playing a strong NT you can presumably rebid 2NT). But I still probably open.

It's not really an ugly rebid - you just have to have an agreement what you do with these hands. 2S is commonly a catch-all bid.

[steve2005]

I think in today's world your opening 1♠ whatever system your playing. It is just too big an advantage to open the bidding first. Opponents bidding (even beginners) when they open is too much better than when they have to overcall. Yes 2♥ is an awkward response from partner but if the opponent's have hearts I'd rather they overcall 2♥ than let them open 1♥.

[mcphee]

Opening seems like it gets you in first. If LHO over calls 2H will you re-open dble is a reasonable way of approaching these hands. If partner bids 2H you make a rebid of 2N (I like to play 3D here would show 2 good suits). Maybe you end up in a poor game, but thats happened before.

[m1cha]

I usually play a system similar to SAYC, and alternatively 2/1. I have agreed with all my partners to open according to the rule of 20, so this is a standard 1♠ opener to me, the expected rebid is 2♦. If partner bids 2♥, I bid 2♠ but it depends on system. If I understand correctly, the more traditional variant of 2/1 rebids 3♦ over 2♥.

 

One exception: With the red suits exchanged and playing BBO robots I would not rebid 2♥ over 1NT because robots raise to 4♥ with any junk. But this has no relevance to a real bridge table.

[RedSpawn]

I pass the OP hand in either system. When I must choose between bidding more or less, I usually bid less until I can limit my hand, and then bid more if there is opportunity later. If I open this hand, partner will always expect more than I have, because I could hardly have less. If I open 1S and partner responds with a forcing 2H, I don't know how to tell partner that my hand got worse and I wish I hadn't opened.

Beautifully said.

 

You can open 1♠ in 1st or 2nd seat and put your stake in the ground using a valid rule of 20 rationale, but how will your partner unpack this marginal open if he has a bad 11-12? If your partner bids a forcing 2♥ it is going to be hard to apply the brakes and put the genie back in the bottle.

 

Also, this hand is always borderline especially since intermediates are missing in action. This hand is really a 'tweener that can be dangerous in defense or an excellent dummy for partner. PASS can work wonders, but bridge is a bidder's game.

[akwoo]

Change a small club to a small heart and it's a hand I'd open at 5 card major strong NT Acol (i.e. SAYC except 1X-2Y-2X passable) but not at 2/1.

 

My preferred variant of 2/1 rebids 2S (catchall for minimums) over 2H.

 

Vulnerable at IMPs with the given hand, I would bid on over a limit raise. (Game makes opposite KQxx xxxx Kxx xx - a perfect construction to be sure, but well below minimum for a limit raise.)

[fromageGB]

If partner has not already passed:

If you play that a weak 2 may be 5 cards and 11 hcp, this hand is too strong; you open 1♠.

If not playing that, you open 1♠.

 

If it has started pass (pass) then:

I open 2♠ whichever version of the weak 2 I am playing.

[ggwhiz]

I suspect this is right up there with the days when beginners were taught 16-18 1nt openers.

 

That did an extreme disservice to them when they ventured out to a duplicate and were bidding against the field without the card play skills to survive or especially the ability to distinguish a system fix from an error which is a big drag on the learning curve.

 

This is a clear cut opener in todays game and my favorite action shape with 3 trump suits + nt as viable landing spots.

[rmnka447]

I'm opening this hand -- rule of 20 with 2 QT and 7 losers. If the hand were Axxxx xx QJx Axx or similar, it would be a clear cut pass to me. Loser count tends to be a tie breaker for me these days.

 

I make the minimum rebid if a 2/1 bid comes back.

[Kaitlyn S]

At the time of this post, 14 opened and 2 passed, and 5 said playing 2/1 might affect an opening bid while 11 said it wouldn't.

 

The recently released book advised you not to open this hand playing 2/1 because if your partner responded 2H, you will get too high. Since it's not at all a bad hand and easily meets the rule of 20+2, I thought that this was rather "chicken" advice, and just wanted to make sure others agreed.

[MrAce]

At the time of this post, 14 opened and 2 passed, and 5 said playing 2/1 might affect an opening bid while 11 said it wouldn't.

 

The recently released book advised you not to open this hand playing 2/1 because if your partner responded 2H, you will get too high. Since it's not at all a bad hand and easily meets the rule of 20+2, I thought that this was rather "chicken" advice, and just wanted to make sure others agreed.

 

Who is the author?

[sfi]

At the time of this post, 14 opened and 2 passed, and 5 said playing 2/1 might affect an opening bid while 11 said it wouldn't.

 

The recently released book advised you not to open this hand playing 2/1 because if your partner responded 2H, you will get too high. Since it's not at all a bad hand and easily meets the rule of 20+2, I thought that this was rather "chicken" advice, and just wanted to make sure others agreed.

 

It's not totally silly advice because those 10-13 hands with 5+ hearts are clearly a weakness in many forms of 2/1. You have to either bid 2H and risk getting overboard opposite a hand like this, bid 1NT and risk not being able to show the hand (after, for instance, a 2S bid), or introduce artificial agreements.

 

This sort of problem is why it's becoming more common to play invitational jump-shifts after 1H/S. If you have a good way of handling the invitational heart hands, the author's objection isn't relevant anymore.

[Nabooba]

I would not play with anyone who deems this hand to be a pass.

[Kaitlyn S]

Who is the author?

I made the error of saying in another thread that I was reading books submitted for an award and someone can correctly deduce that this plethora of questions I've posted lately are about material in these award submissions. If I hadn't said anything about the award, I'd be happy to state the author (this is the second time I was asked, the first was about a different book), however, I'm pretty sure the author and publisher would be unhappy if I stated that the book was entered for the award in the event that it didn't win (unhappy enough that I wouldn't be assisting in the decision process in the future.)

 

Having learned my lesson, next year I won't mention anything about an award.

[MrAce]

I made the error of saying in another thread that I was reading books submitted for an award and someone can correctly deduce that this plethora of questions I've posted lately are about material in these award submissions. If I hadn't said anything about the award, I'd be happy to state the author (this is the second time I was asked, the first was about a different book), however, I'm pretty sure the author and publisher would be unhappy if I stated that the book was entered for the award in the event that it didn't win (unhappy enough that I wouldn't be assisting in the decision process in the future.)

 

Having learned my lesson, next year I won't mention anything about an award.

 

Ok thanks!

[m1cha]

The recently released book advised you not to open this hand playing 2/1 because if your partner responded 2H, you will get too high.

The argument as such is correct but how often does it happen and where do we get when we always pass when something bad might happen?

 

Or, to look at it from the other side: If I don't open this and partner doesn't open with

♠ KQxx

♥ Jxxx

♦ KTx

♣ xx,

how will we find our full game in spades? Rely on opponents to open it for us?

[JLilly]

For any bidding question worth asking, you can come up with scenarios where one policy or another leads to inferior results. If partner has 5♥ and no fit for your minors, yeah, you'll end up in a not-great contract, but what's the alternative -- a 1♠ opener has to be even *stronger* if you have a singleton?

 

Also, 1♠ has preemptive value. For some systems this is a textbook 2♠ opener. I'd open 1♠ regardless of vulnerability or 1st vs. 2nd seat.

[JLilly]

Oh, to the OP, a more intuitive way of presenting the poll would have been:

 

question 1: "do you open this with SAYC?"

question 2: "do you open this with 2/1?"

 

Right now you're asking people to do an XOR operation, which is cognitively relatively difficult.