Your turn.

[MrAce]

[hv=pc=n&s=shk5dkt97cak86542&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1s2c3cp4s]133|200[/hv]

 

Team match,

1♠=11-21 5+

3♣= 3+ ♠ LROB

[rmnka447]

Pass.

 

This hand looks very dangerous. It's a 4 loser with 2 "winners" being unsupported Ks.

 

At unfavorable vulnerability, I think it's not good enough to unilaterally bid 5 ♣.

 

If the opponents bidding is ultralight, say 10 vs. 11, partner can only have 6-7 points at most. If they have full values, partner could have zilch and a potential number looms in 5 ♣x.

 

So, the decision comes down to either pass or double. A double might work out if partner who is marked with some ♠ can sit for it. If also might work out if partner has an undisclosed ♣ fit and complimentary red suit shortness and pulls to 5 ♣. But with a doubleton ♥ and the opponents potentially having lots of ♠ (10+), it looks like partner might be the one holding some ♥ length and pull to 5 ♥.

 

So, reluctantly I'm passing.

[wanoff]

sorry

[wanoff]

Doesn't need much. 4NT

[ggwhiz]

Anytime partner has 4 spades and/or modest shape bidding could be a disaster at this vul as opposed to a positive outcome that is too narrow a window for my taste.

 

If I've been had so be it but they haven't even made this yet and if they do at least 1 of my red kings is likely doa.

[ahydra]

Reminded me of this. This one is substantially better, but still IMHO nowhere near worth a bid at this vul, especially now opps have bid to the 4-level.

 

ahydra

[The_Badger]

The main question that should be asked is why did East bid 4♠ instead of whether South has another bid? East doesn't know that you might have another bid up your sleeve as South. Red vs. green I'm passing. Do you really want to play at the five level doubled vulnerable with a passed partner where East has potentially indicated extra values? I personally feel the odds of getting lucky are slim.

[dow1978]

4♣

[fourdad]

4♣

 

sigh

[eagles123]

4N but far from convinced its right.

[GrahamJson]

A factor that should be taken into consideration is that partner had the opportunity to double 3C if he had support and a few values. It was a risk free call so would not require much. The fact that he passed argues strongly against your bidding on.

[msjennifer]

Leaving aside the vulnerability there are two points which indicate to a PASS.

1) The LHO bid is 3C and not 3/4 S.Also the RHO bidding 4S and not just 3S.

2) Partners inability to take any positive action over 3C.

Coming back to the hand ,it is not wise to bid anything like 5C,4NT or Double. A Pass is clearly indicated.And after all this, the adverse vulnerability also poses a big question mark on any other bid than Pass.

[maartenxq]

First reaction: They cannot play this so I bid.

First question: what bid? 5 ♣? P cannot even double 3? 4 NT can be disastrous.

 

lets read reactions then. Arguments for pass are convincing indeed, do I resign, which can be very wrong too.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[Cyberyeti]

The main question that should be asked is why did East bid 4♠ instead of whether South has another bid? East doesn't know that you might have another bid up your sleeve as South. Red vs. green I'm passing. Do you really want to play at the five level doubled vulnerable with a passed partner where East has potentially indicated extra values? I personally feel the odds of getting lucky are slim.

 

He's bid 4♠ most probably because he has extra spades, he could have made a mild slam try with extra values as his partner is unlimited.

 

My suspicion is that partner has not too many clubs, but has a red suit and not enough to bid it. If it's hearts, you have a problem, if it's diamonds, you should be bidding.

 

Partner will probably assume you're 6-4 if you bid 4N so I probably do that, fully accepting I could be terribly wrong, it wouldn't surprise me at all if partner had xxx, xxx, QJxxxx, x or xxxx, xxxx, xxx, xx and I could hit gold or granite.

[xbabarx]

pass

[Winstonm]

I would pass but if pass worked out at the table this hand wouldn't have been posted. B-)

[forgo]

PASS we r red they r white!!!!

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=shk5dkt97cak86542&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1s2c3cp4s]133|200|

Team match,

1♠=11-21 5+

3♣= 3+ ♠ LROB[/hv]

I rank

1. Double = ACTION. Partner might pass. If partner bids 5♥, too bad. Otherwise he is likely to bid 4N = More than one place to play.
2. Pass = NAT. You have some defence and ♠s might break badly for opponents.
3. 5♣ = NAT. A reasonable shot.
4. 4N. ART. ♣s and another. A danger is that we play in a 4-2 or 4-3 ♦ fit.

[wanoff]

I rank

1. Double = ACTION. Partner might pass. If partner bids 5♥, too bad. Otherwise he is likely to bid 4N = More than one place to play.
2. Pass = NAT. You have some defence and ♠s might break badly for opponents.
3. 5♣ = NAT. A reasonable shot.
4. 4N. ART. ♣s and another. A danger is that we play in a 4-2 or 4-3 ♦ fit.

 

Why is 4NT possibly showing hearts ?

In my (very old) book it shows diamonds with double showing hearts. Obviously double would be nicer because partner can make a penalty pass but that's tough luck.

We have a fit somewhere, probably in clubs - I don't buy, as previously stated that partners pass of 3♣ denied xxx.

[MrAce]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

 

1. 4N. ART. ♣s and another. A danger is that we play in a 4-2 or 4-3 ♦ fit.

No you don't unless you are playing with a beginner.

4 NT means that we are bidding 5♣ unless we have a big fit somewhere else.(I play it side diamonds)So pd will never bid 5♦ without 4 of them. Especially if 4 NT means any side red, then pd can never bid 5♦ without at least 4-4 in red suits.

There was a discussion and some experts suggested that pd should not bid 5♦ even with 4 cards and that it is very dangerous to play a 4-4 fit at 5 level when you are there due to your shape and not the hcp values.

 

 

 

We have a fit somewhere, probably in clubs - I don't buy, as previously stated that partners pass of 3♣ denied xxx.

 

You want to find a fit? Yes you have a fit somewhere. In fact you have fit in both minors. You have 8 cards ♣ and 8 cards ♦ fit. The problem is, you are willing to play at 5 level without the values and due to your shape. So rather than hoping for a fit, you need to hope for a BIG fit (at least 9 cards) and you are also lucky on this hand that pd does not have 5 card spades and/or 4 card spades with too many defensive tricks such as QJ98 or KT9x etc..

 

[hv=pc=n&s=shk5dkt97cak86542&w=skt4ht62daqjcj973&n=sj986hq973d8643ct&e=saq7532haj84d52cq&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1s2c3cp4s]399|300[/hv]

 

I have good news for those who decided to take an action. Because 4♠ makes in this deal.

Bad news is whether you collect -1100 or -1400 depends on which minor you land at 5 level and from which seat it is played. You hoped for a fit, you got it. You hoped that pd doesn;t have many wasted ♠ tricks, you got that too! Because god forbid if 4♠ was failing, even -500 would be disaster. Even if they failed to double you, -200 or -300 would be a bad score.

 

Are there hands where taking action can win? Of course. In the long run I believe it is pretty bad to take any action though.

[GrahamJson]

I rank

1. Double = ACTION. Partner might pass. If partner bids 5♥, too bad. Otherwise he is likely to bid 4N = More than one place to play.
2. Pass = NAT. You have some defence and ♠s might break badly for opponents.
3. 5♣ = NAT. A reasonable shot.
4. 4N. ART. ♣s and another. A danger is that we play in a 4-2 or 4-3 ♦ fit.

I assume that LROB means limit raise or better, so LHO could still have values in hand. They might even be heading for six. To double now seems to me like madness. Of course, you may be lucky, with partner passing and turning up with trump tricks or maybe the contract failing in some other way because of cards being badly placed. If so I would be happy to pick up +50.

 

Again, you could strike it lucky and partner turns up with a great fit, maybe five or six diamonds. Or maybe not. I certainly don't think the odds favour taking the risk.

[nige1]

Why is 4NT possibly showing hearts ?In my (very old) book it shows diamonds with double showing hearts. Obviously double would be nicer because partner can make a penalty pass but that's tough luck.We have a fit somewhere, probably in clubs - I don't buy, as previously stated that partners pass of 3♣ denied xxx.

IMO, 4N should show 5+ ♣s and 4+ either red suit

No you don't [end up in a 4-2 or 4-3 ♦ fit] unless you are playing with a beginner. 4 NT means that we are bidding 5♣ unless we have a big fit somewhere else.(I play it side diamonds)So pd will never bid 5♦ without 4 of them. Especially if 4 NT means any side red, then pd can never bid 5♦ without at least 4-4 in red suits. There was a discussion and some experts suggested that pd should not bid 5♦ even with 4 cards and that it is very dangerous to play a 4-4 fit at 5 level when you are there due to your shape and not the hcp values.

On reflection, I agree with Mr Ace.

I have good news for those who decided to take an action. Because 4♠ makes in this deal.

They would make 4♠X against me. Usually, I don't double enough but this is a bad hand for action. Here, my judgement was faulty but I think the decision was close.

I assume that LROB means limit raise or better, so LHO could still have values in hand. They might even be heading for six. To double now seems to me like madness. Of course, you may be lucky, with partner passing and turning up with trump tricks or maybe the contract failing in some other way because of cards being badly placed. If so I would be happy to pick up +50. Again, you could strike it lucky and partner turns up with a great fit, maybe five or six diamonds. Or maybe not. I certainly don't think the odds favour taking the risk.

GrahamJson got it right for the right reasons.

[ramace]

I pass.if partner has 2 tricks.still chance of 2 down which is -5000.The only possibility of 5c if my p has points in D(with no club looser).If my p has points in still no game.so pass better.

[wank]

i love intermediate (13-16 if flat) jump overcalls