You have been selected for the Grand Jury!

[whereagles]

The Grand Court Martial of Bridge has gathered to trial and sentence the perpetrators of the following events, which took place at the local Cup match of yesterday.

 

The facts are as follows.

 

Imps, both vuln, intermediate opps, the Defendents were playing 2/1 in aggressive style and held:

 

♠ 9xxxx.....AKJ

♥ xx..........KQx

♦ AKQJT.....xxx

♣ x............xxxx

 

Auction

 

LHO...Def1...RHO...Def2

pass..pass..pass...1♣

pass...1♠....pass...pass

dbl......2♠ (all pass)

 

Result: 11 tricks for a 10 imp loss.

 

The Grand Court Attourney General accuses the Defendents of the following crimes against Bridge:

 

1. Def1 has not opened his 6-loser, 14 distribution, 28 zar points, hand.

 

2. Def2 has failed to rebid 1NT his 2nd round, after which Def1 might have bid an invitational 55 with 3♦, or driven to game by himself.

 

3. Def2 missed the opportunity to redeem crime nr.1 by bidding a merely competitive 2♠.

 

 

The Defense Lawyers present the following arguments regarding the respective crimes:

 

1. Def1 did not want to opening because he held only 10 hcp and was weary pard would bid a game-forcing 2♥ after which he would have to make the most revolting rebid of 2♠.

 

2. Def2 thought game to be highly unlikely after Def1 passed 1st round, so he preferred to pass 1♠ instead of rebidding 1NT because 1♠ should be easier to make if Def1 held a bad 6-7 points.

 

3. Def1 reasoned Def2 to be below normal opening values, so he too thought game was unlikely and settled for a quiet 2♠.

 

The Defense rested their case.

 

 

In final alegations, and regarding crime 3, the Attourney General argued that a 4th-in-hand opening ought to show a solid opener, and that therefore passing 1♠ implied tolerance for spades (at least Hxx). That should have encouraged Def1 to make one final effort at game.

 

 

Both Defenders pleeded Innocent, claiming to be humble victims of the Great Shuffler.

 

The Grand Jury adjourned for a decision on the 3 crimes.

 

ARE THE DEFENDENTS GUILTY OR INNOCENT?

 

Quid Juris?.. as they say in courts ;)

[mr1303]

Guilty as charged, m'lud

 

1) Def1 has a clear opening bid. If I'm forced to rebid 2S after 2H then so be it. YOu have 5 cashing tricks in any contract that you're declaring or dummying.

 

2) Def2 has a clear 2S response to 1S. NOT 1NT NO NO NO NO NO NEVER 1NT!!!!

 

3) Def1 should rebid like he holds an opening bid, not an 8 count.

 

4) What kind of hand would open in 4th seat that wouldn't have some kind of play for game opposite Def1's hand.

 

5) I'd deal 'em both Yarborough's for as long as it takes for them to repent their sins.

[luis]

I'd like to join the prosecution.

 

1. Def1 did not want to opening because he held only 10 hcp and was weary pard would bid a game-forcing 2♥ after which he would have to make the most revolting rebid of 2♠.

 

I'd argue that he has to open 1♦ (!) and not 1♠, over 1♥ he has the most confortable 1♠ rebid and then 2♠ describing his hand perfectly. Not opening this hand is quite an extravaganza and seriously contradicts the argument that they were playing an agressive style. Either you are or you are not but you can't switch in the middle.

 

2. Def2 thought game to be highly unlikely after Def1 passed 1st round, so he preferred to pass 1♠ instead of rebidding 1NT because 1♠ should be easier to make if Def1 held a bad 6-7 points.

 

I agree.

 

3. Def1 reasoned Def2 to be below normal opening values, so he too thought game was unlikely and settled for a quiet 2♠

 

Def 1 is clearly nuts, not only he didn't open but now he imagines pd opening a club without a serious opening and he is bidding 1♠ on the 2 fifth and never bid diamonds with AKQJx. I wonder how a player that never bid AKQJx of diamonds pretend to escape from this?

 

I found Def1 Guilty of

- Switching the system style in the middle of the match

- Not bidding diamonds with AKQJx

- Playing aggressive not opening a hand that many non-agressive players would have opened.

- Rebidding 2♠ which may be the worst horrible rebid in the history of bridge

- Not opening because he didn't want to rebid 2♠ and then rebidding 2♠

- Not noticing what a 1♦ opening bid looks like.

- Trying to defend the undefendable.

 

Def 1 should go to jail for some months.

Def 2 can be free after a severe warning from the court.

 

Luis

[Chamaco]

ARE THE DEFENDENTS GUILTY OR INNOCENT?

 

Quid Juris?.. as they say in courts ;)

Both Guilty and the penalty consists of having to play together again ! ;-)

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

1) Def 1 has an opener. I would value his bad spades 5 bagger as just a 4 bagger, and open 1D. Opening 1D allows for a 1S rebid if responde bids hearts.

 

2) I think it is acceptable to pass this hand as 4th seat; but IF you decide to open, then you should rebid. In this case I would rebid 2S, with concentrated value in 2 suits this is not a 1NT rebid.

 

3) Def 1 should have rebid 2 diamonds after opps balancing double, showing long spades and diamond values, and an invitational hand (can't be a GF anymore after 1st pass);

[hrothgar]

1. Playing "normal" 2/1 game force Def1 should pass.

 

In an ideal world, you have some kind of gimmick 2 level opening to use for such hands. Alternatively, you can gussy up 2/1 which will allow you to open lighter. However, if your playing vanilla 2/1 GF you don't have enough strength to open

 

2. Opener should make some kind of rebid. The 4333 shape and Heart stoppers recommends 1NT. 2♠ is OK as well.

 

3. The 2♠ rebid is an abomination...

[HeartA]

I agree with the pass as 2nd position. To open 1♦ (if pd responds 1NT) or 1♠ (if pd responds 2♥) would have awful rebid. A while ago on this forum, Fred mentioned (and a lot agreed) that with a marginal hand, to pass and come back later is a good idea if there is a rebid problem.

 

I would blame East 90% (if not 100%) for failing to rebid 1NT (or 2S) with a full opening hand and AKJ support). After double, I might redouble as West. East, holding AKJ of ♠, after pd's 2♠, 3♠ is almost an automatic action.

[mike777]

""Aggressive" ??

 

Do you mean they are always at each others throat during postmortem?

[Chamaco]

I agree with the pass as 2nd position. To open 1♦ (if pd responds 1NT) or 1♠ (if pd responds 2♥) would have awful rebid.

I do not think opening 1D has great rebid problems (1S would indeed create problems):

 

1D:1H:1S

1D:1NT:pass (even with a hand suit oriented, I pass because I have 5 likely tricks in NT)

1D:2C(the most criticalbid):2D= I have not any problem in rebidding my great diamond suit, even if only a 5-bagger

[P_Marlowe]

1) I would pass as well in 2nd seat, especially,

if playing 2/1 GF, this hand is not an opener

playing 2/1 GF

2) Pass by opener is reasonable, it may not be

best tactical bid, but I think it is fine

3) 2D instead of 2S looks better, although

i doubt, that this would lead to a game

contract

For what's it worth: Responder knows about the

spade fit, because opener will never pass with

a doubleton, so could bid 3S or 4S, but i am not

sure he should, because the singleton in openers

suit, is a sign for downgrading

 

In other words not guilty, and the other jurors will have

a hard time convincing me to change my verdict,

rember the film "12. Juror" ?

If they try, they will need lots of spare time ... B)

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

I'm going to go a little easy on the 1st pass. Although its a ZAR and a rule of 20 opener, the hand resembles a preempt. 1D is possible, but it has nothing to do with the actual result. The 13 count has an automatic 3N response.

I'd probably open it however.

 

I can't fault the pass of 1S either.

 

It was the opps that gave this pair a last minute reprieve. Over the balance, 2S is just plain lazy and a capital crime in some countries. An agressive move is warranted - I like 3D but a rdbl Is ok.

[HeartA]

I'm going to go a little easy on the 1st pass. Although its a ZAR and a rule of 20 opener, the hand resembles a preempt. 1D is possible, but it has nothing to do with the actual result. The 13 count has an automatic 3N response.

I'd probably open it however.

 

I can't fault the pass of 1S either.

 

It was the opps that gave this pair a last minute reprieve. Over the balance, 2S is just plain lazy and a capital crime in some countries. An agressive move is warranted - I like 3D but a rdbl Is ok.

3♦ would be a good bid as well.

[olegru]

I agree with first pass of W.

Not because it is only 10 PC, but because I do not have a good opening bid+rebid.

I can't open 1♦ - because it deny 5-cards major.

I can't open 1♠ - because after very possable 2♥ reply from the partner I'll be forsed to bid suicidal 2♠.

 

I am not happy with pass of E, but I can't blame him for it. It is acceptable bid.

 

2 ♠ from W on third round -ridiculous. Redbl, 3♦, 2♦ even pass, even 3NT (in IMPs) is much better.

[PriorKnowledge]

Def1 guilty, Def2 forgiven

1) 100% a 1S opener. The advocates of 1D are joking, right? You'd bid a 5-card minor before your 5-card major? Most experts open their 5-card major before their 6-card minor. Open 1S and if partner bids 2H, rebid 2S. What is the problem? That is not going to be the final contract. Grow up.

 

2) I can forgive the pass. A 4333 13 count with only 3 spades. A 1N rebid would have saved Def1. A 2S rebid deserves to find responder with 8HCP and 4 spades, going down when 1N is cold. That will lose you 5/6 IMPS

 

3) 2S is terrible. Now is the time for a natural 3D. Give partner a 2nd chance.

[Gerardo]

Didn't open 1♠ to avoid rebidding 2 ♠ over a possible 2♥, and then bids 1♠ and rebids 2♠ B) Guilty!

[han]

The pass of 1S showed 3 spades (and is correct imo), so Defender 1's rebidding spades is normal.

 

I think the problem is that they agreed to play an "aggressive style" but then didn't open what most of us consider an opening hand. No wonder partner thought game was unlikely.

 

Also, when the 2nd defender showed spade support, the 1st defender should make a game-try imo.

[keylime]

Failing to open is a crime. It's that simple.

[awm]

The clearest error here is responder's failure to bid diamonds at second turn. I think 3♦ is the best call.

 

The other two potential mistakes depend a lot on style. Opening Def1's hand has a lot of advantages and disadvantages. The main problem is, do you open 1♠ or 1♦? If you open spades, you will get the wrong lead from partner, may end up playing a 5-2 spade fit, and may have difficulty introducing the diamonds at all if partner responds in hearts. If you open diamonds, you may have difficulty introducing the spades if partner responds in notrump or in a minor. On the actual hand, the auction could well go 1♦-3NT. In fact my personal preference is NOT to open Def1's hand, but playing a self-described "aggressive style" I think it is mandatory to open because partner will not cater to a hand like this if you pass.

 

As for Def2 passing, I would bid 2♠ with this hand. However, the "aggressive style" argument applies here too. If you can assume partner would've opened pretty much any 7-loser hand with five card spades, then you're not going to miss a game here and 1♠ is surely a better partial than 1NT (yuck). So I think Def2's actions were reasonable under the assumption that partner would open aggressively.

 

With my 2/1 and standard partners, I play a more conservative opening style and would pass Def1's hand and bid 2♠ over 1♠ with Def2's. But this is apparently not the style used by this pair...

 

So I would find Def1 guilty on this one. Def2 gets off with a warning to discuss with future partners exactly what merits an opening bid.

[luke warm]

Imps, both vuln, intermediate opps, the Defendents were playing 2/1 in aggressive style and held:

 

♠ 9xxxx.....AKJ

♥ xx..........KQx

♦ AKQJT.....xxx

♣ x............xxxx

 

Auction

 

LHO...Def1...RHO...Def2

pass..pass..pass...1♣

pass...1♠....pass...pass

dbl......2♠ (all pass)

as much as i'd like to say i'd open the west hand, the fact is i might not.. so i can't fault the pass... neither can i find fault with east's pass of 1s.. he has a klinger type A t/o double (12-15), his partner is a passed hand, his partner bid 1 (not 2) spades

 

i think west is at fault for bidding 1s over the x and not something stronger (per system agreements) and for bidding 2s instead of 2d, after the reprieve

[P_Marlowe]

As an after thought:

 

Would we discuss the whole problem, if openers hand

would look slightly different?

 

We could simply switch openers spade holding to

xxx and give him AKJxx in clubs, now, opponents

have 4 cashing top tricks.

 

If you believe, that opener should accept the invitation with

 

AKJ

KQx

xxx

xxxx

 

he should surely do this with

 

xxx

KQx

xxx

AKJx

 

as well, after all responder knows, that opener holds

Club values.

 

If we change openers hand to

 

Kxx

KQx

xxx

KJxx

 

even 3S is not cold anymore, and opener may or may not

accept the inviation.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[hotShot]

If you play an agressive style, Def1 will have to open this 6 looser hand.

A lot of opening hands with more HCP have more loosers too. It even satisfys the rule of 20!

There is nothing wrong with the 1♣ opening of Def2. And why should Def2 bid over 1♠ that shows a 4 card suit, after partners opening pass. and rising to 2♠ with combined 7 cards and silent opps is not neccessary.

 

Ok now your helpful opps reopen the bidding for you, why on earth Def1 did you not bid 2/3♦? This should make clear that you hold 5♠. There is no excuse for that, you know your own strength and know that partner opend. 2♠ could be a 6HCP 0 distributional points hand. This is no agressive style, this is even beyond "rock solid" style.

 

If you don't want to bid 1♠, 2♠ than open 1♦. There is nothing wrong with opening 1m to avoid rebid problems, if you hold 5♠'s too.

 

Def1 is guity of violating the agreed system by not opening, misdescribing his hand and even rejecting help from opps.

[sceptic]

Defendant 1/. A clear cut 1 spade opener in my book, mind you I have just been served a 6 month suspended sentance by the same court for fraudulently using 13 out of 52 cards to swindle my partner out of a lay down game.

[helene_t]

Still wondering if "agressive style" means "we are allowed to open nice 10-pointers" or "we are obliged to open all nice 10-pointers".

 

In the first case, I might not open Def1's hand. I think I would but when saying that I might be influenced by the result. However, assuming Def2's pass show three spades (this is not obvious if you play 4-cards-up-the-line as beginners are taught in Netherlands and Scandinavia, because in that case 1♠ is often a 5-card. But playing 2/1 I will assume some kind of Walsh-like style), Def1 can redouble and then 3♠. I don't like 2♦, it's too unclear what it means (canapé? lead-directing?) and besides Def2 can't have any help in diamonds.

[joker_gib]

Def1 guilty, Def2 forgiven

1) 100% a 1S opener. The advocates of 1D are joking, right? You'd bid a 5-card minor before your 5-card major? Most experts open their 5-card major before their 6-card minor. Open 1S and if partner bids 2H, rebid 2S. What is the problem? That is not going to be the final contract. Grow up.

 

2) I can forgive the pass. A 4333 13 count with only 3 spades. A 1N rebid would have saved Def1. A 2S rebid deserves to find responder with 8HCP and 4 spades, going down when 1N is cold. That will lose you 5/6 IMPS

 

3) 2S is terrible. Now is the time for a natural 3D. Give partner a 2nd chance.

Agree totally ! ;)

[badderzboy]

I would suggest a crueler punishment for 2/1 players , make them play a weak NT ( or ACOL even crueller lol) and you can pass the West hand so easily.... and not miss game... but do u play 3NT or 4♠???

[hotShot]

Def1 guilty, Def2 forgiven

1) 100% a 1S opener. The advocates of 1D are joking, right? You'd bid a 5-card minor before your 5-card major? Most experts open their 5-card major before their 6-card minor. Open 1S and if partner bids 2H, rebid 2S. What is the problem? That is not going to be the final contract. Grow up.

 

If you really think a top 5 card suit worth 5 tricks can't be opend before a wothless suit lead by the 9, you should get yourself a new set of experts.

It is ok to handle a suit without even the T as a 4 card suit. Experts argue with suit quality. Would you really want partner to lead ♠?