Options After A Takeout Double

[FelicityR]

In my 30 or so years of playing bridge I can't remember having a hand like this after a takeout double - though I am sure there must be one in the long lost past. However, I'd be interested in what decision you would make with my hand.

 

Pick-up game, IMPs, main room, Non-vulnerable vs. Vulnerable.

 

And, secondly, would your decision be different if the vulnerability was switched and you were Vulnerable vs. Non Vulnerable?

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sa62hq7da8542ck63&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1ddp]133|200[/hv]

[ArtK78]

3NT certainly looks like the standout bid - 13 HCP, opponent's suit well stopped, no 4 card unbid suit.

 

My second choice would be 2♦ as a forcing cue bid, intending to bid 3NT next if my 2♦ bid is not forcing to game. If 2♦ is game forcing, I can bid 2NT next.

 

I have no intention of suggesting that we play the hand in diamonds, and I am not passing for penalties with such a bad diamond suit.

 

 

 

 

 

[Vampyr]

3NT certainly looks like the standout bid - 13 HCP, opponent's suit well stopped, no 4 card unbid suit.

 

My second choice would be 2♦ as a forcing cue bid, intending to bid 3NT next if my 2♦ bid is not forcing to game. If 2♦ is game forcing, I can bid 2NT next.

 

I have no intention of suggesting that we play the hand in diamonds, and I am not passing for penalties with such a bad diamond suit.

 

You might be hanging partner. I would cue and bid 2NT, unless the cuebid is forcing to game. If it is I am not sure what I will do. Possibly stuck with 3NT.

[MrAce]

You might be hanging partner. I would cue and bid 2NT, unless the cuebid is forcing to game. If it is I am not sure what I will do. Possibly stuck with 3NT.

 

 

What exactly are you expecting pd to bid over your cue? He will bid 2M and you will bid 2 NT, fine, now please explain me the difference between this and direct 2 NT. (assuming that you intended this as an invitation due to your comment about cue being GF or not)

 

To me...

 

(1♦)- X- (Pass)-2♦

(Pass)- 2♥-(Pass) -2 NT shows invitational hand with 4 card ♥ and good diamond stoppers, because with 4+ card spade you would bid 2♠ over 2♥. And you would bid direct 2 NT without 4 card ♥.

 

 

 

(1♦)- X- (Pass)-2♦

(Pass)- 2♠-(Pass) - 2 NT shows inv hand with 4 card hearts and diamond stoppers.

 

Same goes for cue bid followed by 3 NT since I had the option of bidding direct 3 NT without a cue when I do not have a 4 card M.

[Vampyr]

What exactly are you expecting pd to bid over your cue? He will bid 2M and you will bid 2 NT, fine, now please explain me the difference between this and direct 2 NT. (assuming that you intended this as an invitation due to your comment about cue being GF or not)

 

The difference is that immediate 2NT would be 10-12 balanced with a stopper. I realise that many if not most people will not have this available.

[johnu]

3NT certainly looks like the standout bid - 13 HCP, opponent's suit well stopped, no 4 card unbid suit.

 

Diamonds are stopped, but well stopped? I wouldn't be surprised to lose 3 or 4 diamond tricks.

[johnu]

At this vulnerability, I would bid 2NT because partner will try to compete with a shapely T/O double with a minimum number of HCP (and I am wimping out on this hand). Although you have 5 diamonds, you could easily have 3 or 4 diamond losers, and you have no spot cards and no suits that are obvious sources of tricks. I would like this hand a lot more if there was a sure 2nd diamond stopper.

 

Partner can raise to 3NT if they had a sound double.

[ggwhiz]

I'm passing. I'm going to like whatever partner leads and if there happens to be a 5 card club suit over there when we can get the pump on now or soon it's max upside.

 

Stopping short of game is wimpy and game is hardly a sure thing. The downside is relatively small unless they make this AND we make game which is a parlay I'm betting against.

[rmnka447]

I'll start with 2 ♦ and bid NT next over an minimum rebid by partner.

[MrAce]

At this vulnerability, I would bid 2NT because partner will try to compete with a shapely T/O double with a minimum number of HCP (and I am wimping out on this hand). Although you have 5 diamonds, you could easily have 3 or 4 diamond losers, and you have no spot cards and no suits that are obvious sources of tricks. I would like this hand a lot more if there was a sure 2nd diamond stopper.

 

Partner can raise to 3NT if they had a sound double.

 

You mean he holds something like

 

xxxx

AJx

x

AQxxx

 

and we hope ♥ finesse does not work AND they have enough diamonds to set? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

 

Let me give you guys a secret about why this is a bidders game! Because opponents do not see your hands. Yes if opening leader has KQJTx(x) ♦ he has an easy lead. However he will also lead ♦ from KQJx. Will he lead ♦ from KJxxx on this auction vs 3 NT? Or will he know to lead small from KQT9x ? Because if he does not, your ♦ 8 may create a big problem for defense.

 

Are you guys seriously suggesting to invite when pd doubles and you hold 13 count with 2 Aces and a King? Seriously? What have you guys been playing all this years? You are not bidding a grandslam ffs! You are playing IMPs and you are bidding a very reasonable 3 NT. Yes I know it may go down but so what? Good luck at trying to stay in 2 NT and expect it to make exactly 8 tricks. Good luck with expecting pd to know when it is right to accept and when not. Oh and btw, they give a big bonus for playing games, such as 300 points instead of 50 for partscore NV and 500 instead of 50 vulnerable.

[ahydra]

I'd just bid the practical 3N. And MrAce is right, not treating this as FG wins you a Wimp Award.

 

ahydra

[johnu]

You mean he holds something like

 

xxxx

AJx

x

AQxxx

 

and we hope ♥ finesse does not work AND they have enough diamonds to set? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

 

Do you play that 2NT bars partner from bidding? With a decent looking 5 card suit, why wouldn't partner bid 3NT even being towards the minimum? You need to make up another hand to demonstrate your point.

 

Since we are making up hands, why can't partner have something like

 

Qxxx

Axxx

x

Axxx

[MrAce]

Do you play that 2NT bars partner from bidding? With a decent looking 5 card suit, why wouldn't partner bid 3NT even being towards the minimum? You need to make up another hand to demonstrate your point.

 

Since we are making up hands, why can't partner have something like

 

Qxxx

Axxx

x

Axxx

 

LOL

 

Since we are cherry picking hands at least try to come up with something where you can make 2 NT!

See this is the difference between you and me. Not only you can not see this but you can not see it even after I explained it in my previous post!

I am very well aware that pd can hold the hand types you picked. If he has that kind of hand, inviting 2 NT will not keep you in plus score heaven.

I would have given you much more credit if you passed the double but 2 NT? Sorry!

[johnu]

Since we are cherry picking hands at least try to come up with something where you can make 2 NT!

 

I'm not such a wimp that I only bid 1NT :P

[MrAce]

I'm not such a wimp that I only bid 1NT :P

 

My bad! I thought you were advertising 2 NT!

 

 

At this vulnerability, I would bid 2NT because......

 

 

Do you play that 2NT bars partner from bidding? .............

 

 

[Jinksy]

I'm passing. The most likely distribution around the table starting with me clockwise is something like 3253 3352 4414 3424. If so I hope to take most of the tricks outside diamonds, which (adding the diamond) already scores about as well as game. If opener has longer diamonds, 3N is in more danger - since a) we're less likely to benefit from suit blockage, and b) opener is commensurately more likely to be able to double if he's got an outside ace (or two).

[steve2005]

I too like passing. With good controls I expect our side to take a lot of top tricks and get some ruffs.

If south is a minimum 3N won't be laydown and if they have a good hand we're killing 1♦.

[SteveMoe]

1N=8-11

2N=12-14

 

2N.

[Phil]

Float that shizzle.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

With switched vulnerability, even equal, I would go with 3NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[nekthen]

Its a pass from me. Reverse the vulnerability and I go with 3N. 1 for the score and 2 partner knows better than to make a light dbl red v green. East can have anything from a 4333 12 count to an 18 count with KQJTxxx. If 3N makes we get more for beating 1D and if 3N is down, we may yet make a plus against 1D

[FelicityR]

Thank you all for your replies and insights. For your information I passed the double - and yes, I do realise that it is the wrong type of hand to take this action - but I thought that maybe 3NT by us was possibly a doomed contract, and even if it was makeable there was a good possibility to set 1♦x by two tricks.

 

On the actual board my partner and myself set it 3 tricks - it should have been just two - but partner had doubled on ♠KQ83 ♥643 ♦Q103 ♣AJ5(!)

[wank]

You 3nt bidders did spot the colours, right?

[Kaitlyn S]

1N=8-11

2N=12-14

 

2N.

Those are reasonable ranges opposite a 1-level overcall which could be pretty ilght, but opposite a takeout double which should show an opening hand (albeit counting shortness) ?

 

You can't convince me to bid less than game with 14 points when partner makes a takeout double. And while I could see a possible set if opener has 5 of the outstanding 8 diamonds, a good diamond lead, and we can't rattle off 9 winners, partner isn't going to raise 2NT on many hands on which 3NT is a good bet.

 

I bid 3NT although at these colors I have some admiration for those that want to defend 1Dx.

[RedSpawn]

Those are reasonable ranges opposite a 1-level overcall which could be pretty ilght, but opposite a takeout double which should show an opening hand (albeit counting shortness) ?

 

You can't convince me to bid less than game with 14 points when partner makes a takeout double. And while I could see a possible set if opener has 5 of the outstanding 8 diamonds, a good diamond lead, and we can't rattle off 9 winners, partner isn't going to raise 2NT on many hands on which 3NT is a good bet.

 

I bid 3NT although at these colors I have some admiration for those that want to defend 1Dx.

 

Agreed. This was a pick up game too so I am not confident that pick up partners make the best defenders until they prove themselves on a few boards.

 

Bid the 3NT as you can't afford to wait for the perfect "atmospheric" conditions to bid game. Trust that your partner has made a "disciplined" takeout double and take the choo-choo train to its final destination.