Fargo season 3 - featuring bridge

[Stephen Tu]

I was looking up upcoming episodes of Fargo since the new season starts next week, and was stunned by the first two episode titles: "The Law of Vacant Places", and "The Principle of Restricted Choice".

Synopsis of season 3: "murder, mobsters, and cut-throat competitive bridge"!! Hope they do our game justice.

[kenberg]

I was looking up upcoming episodes of Fargo since the new season starts next week, and was stunned by the first two episode titles: "The Law of Vacant Places", and "The Principle of Restricted Choice".

Synopsis of season 3: "murder, mobsters, and cut-throat competitive bridge"!! Hope they do our game justice.

 

I will look forward to a suicide squeeze.

[barmar]

Only the first 7 episode titles are listed in Wikipedia. None of the others are bridge terms (AFAIK), but maybe we should come up with bridge meanings for them. They are:

 

The Law of Non-Contradiction

The Narrow Escape Problem

The House of Special Purpose

The Lord of No Mercy

The Law of Inevitability

[smerriman]

The Law of Non-Contradiction - Partner is Always Right

The Narrow Escape Problem - The Tricky Squeeze

The Lord of No Mercy - The Secretary Bird

[FelicityR]

I find, sadly, that many TV programme makers, and even some fictional authors, do not give intellectual pursuits like bridge and chess justice. There's invariably something where I am watching or reading and thinking 'That's rubbish'. Or 'That's wrong'.

 

Without naming names, long ago one bestselling British author wrote a short story about chess. It seemed farcical, too far-fetched. I gave it to my son who was, at the time, an avid chess player to read.

 

His words: 'Totally ludicrous!' What happened next was even more extraordinary. My son was so annoyed he penned a letter to the publishers pointing out all the inaccuracies to which he eventually received a sheepish reply.

[barmar]

I find, sadly, that many TV programme makers, and even some fictional authors, do not give intellectual pursuits like bridge and chess justice. There's invariably something where I am watching or reading and thinking 'That's rubbish'. Or 'That's wrong'.

To be fair, this isn't only true of intellectual pursuits. TV shows generally don't get the details of anything right. Even if they're central to the plots -- most of the forensic abilities on CSI-type shows are way more advanced than in real life (e.g. getting DNA analysis takes weeks, and that's only if it's a priority -- most DNA labs have years of backlogs)

[barmar]

OK, so there appears to be a reason why these bridge terms are in the episode titles. The main character played by Mary Elizabeth Winstead (who was a pleasure to watch in last summer's "Brain Dead") is described as

a crafty and alluring recent parolee with a passion for competitive bridge playing. Nikki is a woman with a plan, focused on always being at least one move ahead of her opponents.

 

It starts tonight, so we'll see how much they butcher the game.

[barmar]

About 5 minutes of the show last night was Nikki and her boyfriend/parole officer Ray Stussy (one of the two brothers played by Ewan McGregor) at a regional tournament. They arrived at the entry-selling desk, then went to their table, then there was a montage of players opening bidding boxes, dealing cards, and playing. You couldn't really tell what the auctions and play were like, but they got the basic mechanics right. In particular, when they showed a table with a bunch of quitted tricks, they made sure that everyone's cards were pointing the same directions.

 

So it seems like there's someone who knows a little about duplicate bridge on staff. The only thing that seemed a little off was when they got home they talked about being "3rd runner-up" and it being like being a bronze medalist in the Olympics. I've never heard any bridge player refer to places like that. And unless it's a strong field that you're out of your depth in, no one celebrates coming in 3rd.

 

But Fargo characters are supposed to be quirky, so I'll let that go.

[barmar]

Found this in the ew.com interview with the showrunner.

Speaking of Swango, you’re adding competitive bridge as an element this year, which isn’t something you often see in movies or TV; it’s not a game that’s so common that the audience can follow along while watching like they can with poker or blackjack.

Yeah, I’m bringing postage stamps and bridge back. To the degree there’s any nod to The Big Lebowski in this season, I like the idea that bridge, like bowling, is an out-of-time, forgotten game with archaic rules and leagues. It’s also a game played by people around the country. It’s not sophisticated culturally, but it is very common. The more I looked into it, the more I realized it’s a hugely strategic game with [635,013,559,600] possible deals, and [players] use probability matrixes the way they do in quantum mechanics. It’s a hugely complicated game. And I wanted Ray and Nikki to have something positive they were working toward as a goal, and I liked that Nikki was the strategist and he’s a strong support player, but he’s not the brains of the operation. So it allows her to be a strategist the way a chess player is a strategist — which will come in handy for her later on.

 

OK, how many of you use probability matrixes like quantum physicists do?

[kenberg]

I noticed that the dummy was spread after the opening lead hit the table so they mad some effort to get basic features.right. Otoh, Nikki had to tell Ray that he was the dummy and he seemed a bit confused over that.

 

The bridge is ok, but I can't say that it lends much to the story. So far at least.

 

We will see how it goes. I think the less said about any connection with quantum mechanics the better.

[barmar]

I noticed that the dummy was spread after the opening lead hit the table so they mad some effort to get basic features.right. Otoh, Nikki had to tell Ray that he was the dummy and he seemed a bit confused over that.

I think Ray is more of a novice, so he needed to be reminded. I've also seen things like that happen a number of time, when dummy is distracted.

[kenberg]

I think Ray is more of a novice, so he needed to be reminded. I've also seen things like that happen a number of time, when dummy is distracted.

 

Certainly Ray is portrayed as more than a little slow on the uptake, such as when Nikki distracts Maurice by getting ouy of the tub and then has to say "Ray, the gun". So yes, he might have to be told to spread the cards.

 

Which gets to how seriously we are to take this earlier talk of Nikki's about how they can make the really big bucks as bridge pros. Maybe we could have a guest appearance where Jimmy Cayne interviews them to see if he wants them on his team.

 

This is, of course, produced or whatever by the Coen brothers so highly quirky logic is to be expected. I have mixed feelings about their work. I really liked the movie Fargo. I largely like the tv series. I saw A Serious Man the ther night and while it had its points, when it finished I had no feeling of wishing it was longer. I read that EW article you linked to and I thought the "showrunner". a term I never heard before, sounded a bit dippy. But it was EW, so ....

[Stephen Tu]

Ray was distracted looking at his cell phone, I think that was just used as an opportunity for Nikki to call him "dummy" with the double meaning.

 

Seemed completely unrealistic talking about getting noticed and going pro for getting like top 3 in a regional mixed pairs, a nothing event. But supposedly she is on parole, can't leave the state and it probably doesn't fit the story for them to go to an NABC for a week.

 

The Coen brothers have zilch to do with the TV show, it's all under control of Noah Hawley the showrunner. He wanted to do a series inspired by the film and they just signed off on it, no real involvement by the brothers.

[barmar]

The Coen brothers have zilch to do with the TV show, it's all under control of Noah Hawley the showrunner. He wanted to do a series inspired by the film and they just signed off on it, no real involvement by the brothers.

But from what I've read, they're pleased with what Hawley has done with it -- it's very consistent with what they did in the original movie. They're listed as Executive Producers, and not at all unhappy to have their names associated with it.

[WellSpyder]

OK, how many of you use probability matrixes like quantum physicists do?

I think this was covered in my first bridge lesson, but I couldn't really follow the quantum mechanics so I've never been able to apply it properly.....

[Al_U_Card]

I think this was covered in my first bridge lesson, but I couldn't really follow the quantum mechanics so I've never been able to apply it properly.....

Might it have something to do with the superposition of states and Schrodinger's Queen? (If you don't take the finesse, the Q was onside, if you do, it was offside....etc.)

[barmar]

Might it have something to do with the superposition of states and Schrodinger's Queen? (If you don't take the finesse, the Q was onside, if you do, it was offside....etc.)

My partner refers to this as the quantum theory of bridge. But he usually applies it to bidding, not play: if the slam requires the normal 8-ever, 9-never play, it will be wrong if you bid the slam, right if you stop short.

 

Roland Voigt has several BW threads that seem to be about "probability matrixes", so I guess someone does use them.

http://bridgewinners.com/profile/roland-voigt/

[gwnn]

I have done some quantum physics and I've never used any probability matrices, let alone matrixes. I suppose the density matrix has a lot to do with probabilities, but nobody would call it a probability matrix.

 

edit: OK I guess the Pauli matrices are kind of close, although in this sense they would just be a glorified coin toss.

[barmar]

I think it's likely that Hawley knows even less about quantum mechanics than he does about bridge.

[gwnn]

I think it's likely that Hawley knows even less about quantum mechanics than he does about bridge.

I'm pretty sure that's correct! I was mainly complaining about the plural of "matrix", and that actually bridge players are more likely to use "probability matrices" than quantum physicists. After all, even if you call some quantity a probability matrix in quantum physics, in practice the quantum physicist would be safely removed from it (it would be deep in some computer algorithm).

[mycroft]

I will note that they came in at our January sectional, and kibitzed the tournament coordinator and partner (Partnership). They sat in as dummy for the players, and even got to bid and play a few hands (being "operated" by the players). They were extremely pleasant people who did everything with a minimum of fuss, and the show runners/casters worked around our schedule very well.

 

Fargo then took volunteers (well, they were paid "scale", because, you know, laws) from the tournament to be in the taping. I saw at least 5 I recognized in those "5 minutes". Unfortunately, I have a real job...

 

I also recognized the gas station (which I think was Didsbury, but it was clearly an Alberta, not North Dakota, building).

 

Two of our most experienced club directors were the "show experts", making sure that there wasn't anything too jarring in the setup of the room et al; two more were the actual TDs in the show. From what I was told by players who were extras, they didn't do anything too badly wrong. And the extras got to play a lot of bridge, either at the table (although they had to play the same hand the same way a lot, too, for continuity reasons) or in the green room during the many lulls (why yes, I have done amateur theatre, why do you ask?)

[kenberg]

I think they are somewhat casual about geography. Although titled Fargo, the opening lines say that the story took place in Minnesota.The town of Fargo ND, just across the Red River from Moorhead MN, had a role in the earlier seasons and in the movie, but largely itl seems to be set in Minnesota. I find this all sort of fun, part of my enjoyment is this somewhat distorted but in some broad sense accurate view of my home state.

 

There is a scene with a Red Owl grocery. I think I read that this was set at a Red Owl in Wisconsin. In the 60s I did my weekly shopping at a Minneapolis Red Owl but it has been many years since I have seen one in Minnesota.

 

The characters are seen reading a St. Cloud newspaper, but I don't think the scenery we see is from around St. Cloud. Looks to me as if they are further north.

 

I don't think of Minnesota as given to violence, but any place can be. I'll give a couple of examples.

 

The first is from the 60s. A woman was brutally murdered, there were signs of a break in. But then it turned out that a few weeks earlier her husband had taken out a large life insurance policy on her, a million bucks I think, with him as the beneficiary. This led to further investigation. As I recall the trial: The husband had Chicago connections, he had hired someone for, I think, 3K to kill his wife and the guy he hired sub-contacted the job, paying one K to a shell-shocked (as PTSD from combat was then called) Korean War Vet who totally bungled the job. The husband went to Stillwater State prison.

 

The above came to mind as I watched the bungled murder play out this season. There are strong similarities.

 

This next is from the 70s.

I was back in Minneapolis reading, I think, the St. Paul newspaper. There was a story started with a car being driven part way up an alley. The driver got out, pulled someone (dead, I hope) from the trunk of the car, dumped gasoline on him, and lit him on fire. The paper interviewed a woman who had, from her window, seen this take place. "It was different", they quoted her as saying. The Minnesota way of reacting can be a bit, well, different.

 

So I am enjoying the show. How often do I see Minnesota featured in a series? Yes, the MTM show. But that was Minneapolis, this is the north country.

[barmar]

I think they are somewhat casual about geography. Although titled Fargo, the opening lines say that the story took place in Minnesota.

The movie and all 3 seasons of Fargo have all taken place in Minnesota.

[kenberg]

The movie and all 3 seasons of Fargo have all taken place in Minnesota.

 

From

https://en.wikipedia...argo_(TV_series)

 

n 1979, beautician Peggy Blumquist (Kirsten Dunst) and her husband, butcher Ed Blumquist (Jesse Plemons) of Luverne, Minnesota, cover up their hit-and-run and murder of Rye Gerhardt (Kieran Culkin), son of Floyd Gerhardt (Jean Smart), matriarch of the Gerhardt crime family in Fargo, North Dakota. Meanwhile, State Trooper Lou Solverson (Patrick Wilson), and his father-in-law, Sheriff Hank Larsson (Ted Danson), investigate a triple homicide at a local diner connected to Rye.^[5]

 

 

 

^{That's the sort of thing I was thinking of. Fargo the town actually did get mentioned, and I think there were some, occasional and minor, jurisdictional issues. I had thought that there also was the occasional reference to Fargo the town in hte movie as well, but that as a while back and I could be wrong.}

 

^{At any rate, it definitely is set in Minnesota. And the scenery looks like Minnesota, but up north. We are going out there for ten days or so, driving north along Mille Lacs, usually called Mille Lacs Lake which I guess means Thousand Lakes Lake. St. Cloud is to the west of Mille Lacs, but I really think those large areas of pines that they show are further up.}

 

^{Becky had never been to Minnesota before she married me. Now she has been (briefly) ice fishing. And canoeing on the St. Croix. Attacked by black flies on Lake Itasca. A regular Paul Bunyon groupie.}

 

 

 

 

[kenberg]

I just watched episode 5 of season 3. I see that there are still only 7 episodes listed for season 3. Does anyone know if season 3 ends after the 7th episode? I ask because I have pretty much had it with the show. I could maybe watch two more just to see how it ends, but there were ten episodes in each of the first two seasons and 5 more episodes is more than I am up for. We are warned at teh beginning that there will be violence and, in this last episode, some sexual situations, For mature audiences etc. Violence, language and sex I can handle. They need a warning that it is repulsive. I can, if I must, deal with repulsive if it is a true situation in my own life, and I can maybe deal with it as part of a truly excellent drama. That's not the case here.