Minor suit slam try

[VixTD]

These hands arose in a recent county match, and were the subject of a discussion afterwards.

[hv=pc=n&w=s54h96dt53cat8752&e=sakqha75dakj4ckq3]266|100[/hv]

Eleven tables played in either 3NT or 4NT, making 12 or 13 tricks, one in 5♣ making 12. No one bid a slam.

 

I'm sure not everyone can bid 2NT to show 25+ balanced, but just suppose you can. (Our opponents opened 2NT in a strong club system to show just this, you and I might bid 2♣ - 2♦; 2♥ - 2♠; 2NT.)

 

I argued that this West hand is good enough to make a slam try in clubs, but a teammate countered that East could accept the try with weaker trump support, and then a heart lead could scupper the contract if there's a club loser.

 

My question is, assuming you can bail out (or bale out) in 4NT if things get too hot, how good does responder have to be to make a minor-suit slam try, and how good does opener have to be to accept it? Use the featured deal to illustrate your answer.

[spotlight7]

I use 2C-2D*-2S*-2S*-2N* to show 25-27

 

 

...2NT*-4NT is a passable club slam invite with 6-7 clubs and no side shortage.

 

 

...2NT*-4S* is a club transfer with 6-7 clubs and an unbalanced hand.

 

 

My research with balanced hands suggest 31+ with control hands are slam range.

 

 

With 5332 or 5422 and needing IMPs or MPs 29+ with a 5-4 fit will serve.

 

 

With a 6 card suit as in your example hand 29+(28?) is reasonable.

 

 

Aces are under valued in slam auctions counting 4.3

 

 

(Reith count) or 4.5 in other systems is reasonable.

 

 

A six card club suit headed by an ace opposite 25-27 puts you in slam range 'with control rich hands.'

[Cyberyeti]

We would bid 2♣-2♦-3N as 26-27 bal, partner would transfer via a bid that shows either minor and you would break it and bid the slam as you have 6 side suit cover cards opposite 7 small or 6 clubs to the ace, and I don't think partner insists on the minor with 6 small. If he happens to have 6 diamonds to the Q you will need either a bit of luck or something else.

[FelicityR]

Fortunately I am familiar with the Kokish relay 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥, etc. - in principle (though I had a further look online - Bridgeguys)

 

Maybe if West declined the puppet 2♠ bid and bid 2NT instead as a transfer to ♣ the slam could be reached. What 2NT specifically means could be open to discussion, but at least a 6 card suit with 4-6 HCPs seems feasible.

 

A quick check if playing 0314 Roman Key Card Blackwood by East would establish the ♣ ace and 12 tricks are there for the taking.

[fourdad]

Did anyone open 3NT? Responder could then value his hand at 8 points in clubs and ask aces.

[nige1]

A possible notrump opening structure is

• 1N = BAL 15-17
• 2N = BAL 22-23
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N = BAL 24-25
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 3N = BAL 26-27 (or just a gamble depending on taste).
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ = NAT or BAL (Kokish). Then 2♠ = Normal relay. 3m = NAT S/O to play, 2N = both ms.
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ - 2N = BAL 20-21

[PhilG007]

Did anyone open 3NT? Responder could then value his hand at 8 points in clubs and ask aces.

If your side has agreed to play the "gambling" 3NT opener promising a 7 card minimum solid

minor suit,then this option is not open to you.

[PhilG007]

These hands arose in a recent county match, and were the subject of a discussion afterwards.

[hv=pc=n&w=s54h96dt53cat8752&e=sakqha75dakj4ckq3]266|100[/hv]

Eleven tables played in either 3NT or 4NT, making 12 or 13 tricks, one in 5♣ making 12. No one bid a slam.

 

I'm sure not everyone can bid 2NT to show 25+ balanced, but just suppose you can. (Our opponents opened 2NT in a strong club system to show just this, you and I might bid 2♣ - 2♦; 2♥ - 2♠; 2NT.)

 

I argued that this West hand is good enough to make a slam try in clubs, but a teammate countered that East could accept the try with weaker trump support, and then a heart lead could scupper the contract if there's a club loser.

 

My question is, assuming you can bail out (or bale out) in 4NT if things get too hot, how good does responder have to be to make a minor-suit slam try, and how good does opener have to be to accept it? Use the featured deal to illustrate your answer.

 

Holding the West hand,I would respond 3♣ OK I only have 4HCP but I also have a good 6 card club suit. When searching for a minor suit slam,its vital to set the trump suit as early as possible.3♣ is also game forcing. On the hands given a possible auction might go :-

 

2♣ 3♣ 4NT(RKCB) 5♦(1 key card which HAS to be the A♣) 6♣ The slam will only fail if the diamond finesse loses and North holds ♣J9xx

[Cyberyeti]

A possible notrump opening structure is

• 1N = BAL 15-17
• 2N = BAL 22-23
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N = BAL 24-25
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 3N = BAL 26-27 (or just a gamble depending on taste).
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ = NAT or BAL (Kokish). Then 2♠ = Normal relay. 3m = NAT S/O to play, 2N = both ms.
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ - 2N = BAL 20-21

 

We do something similar:

 

2N = good 19-21

2♣/2N = 22-23

2♣-kokish-2N = 24-25

2♣/3N = 26/27

2♣-kokish-3N = 28/29

[nige1]

A possible notrump opening structure is

• 1N = BAL 15-17
• 2N = BAL 22-23
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N = BAL 24-25
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 3N = BAL 26-27 (or just a gamble depending on taste).
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ = NAT or BAL (Kokish). Then 2♠ = Normal relay. 3m = NAT S/O to play, 2N = both ms.
• 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ - 2N = BAL 20-21

We do something similar:

 

2N = good 19-21

2♣/2N = 22-23

2♣-kokish-2N = 24-25

2♣/3N = 26/27

2♣-kokish-3N = 28/29

If you include a weaker notrump range (e.g. 19-21) in the Kokish sequence 2♣-2♦-2♥, then responder can sometimes usefully break the 2♥ puppet, e.g. With a weak minor suit, instead of bidding 2♠, he can try to sign-off in his minor. For example, he can bid 3♦ with

♠ x x x ♥ x ♦ J x x x x x ♣ x x x

[Zelandakh]

Over 2NT, one family of responses uses 3♠ to show clubs and clam ambitions. Over this, Opener can continue 3NT without a club fit, 4♣ with a club fit but otherwise unsuitable hand or something higher (such as showing key cards) with both a club fit and a suitable hand. Over 3NT and 4♣, Responder has further slam moves available that would discover if, for example, Opener is missing ♣K or not. This seems to me to be the type of structure you are looking for here.

[Zelandakh]

A possible notrump opening structure is

There are so many of these it is mind-blowing. Mine is:-

 

12-14: 1NT

15-17: 1♣ - 1♦; 1NT

18-20: 1♣ - 1♦; 1♥ - 1♠; 1NT

21-22: 1♣ - 1♦; 2NT

23-24: 1♣ - 1♦; 1♥ - 1♠; 2NT

25-26: 1♣ - 1♦; 3♣/♦/♥ (for ♥/♠/no major respectively)

27-28: 1♣ - 1♦; 1♥ - 1♠; 3♣/♦/♥ (for ♥/♠/no major respectively)

29-30: 1♣ - 1♦; 3NT

31-32: 1♣ - 1♦; 1♥ - 1♠; 3NT

 

 

An easier and popular one is to split ranges between 1♣ and 1♦, making both nebulous.

 

Benji 2m openings are another way of allowing tighter balanced ranges with very powerful hands.

 

The majority of these schemes come with a downside that for most more than offsets the positives given how rare these very strong hands are but if you really want an extended NT ladder it is actually a very simple thing to incorporate into a bidding system.

[FelicityR]

Holding the West hand,I would respond 3♣ OK I only have 4HCP but I also have a good 6 card club suit. When searching for a minor suit slam,its vital to set the trump suit as early as possible.3♣ is also game forcing. On the hands given a possible auction might go :-

 

2♣ 3♣ 4NT(RKCB) 5♦(1 key card which HAS to be the A♣) 6♣ The slam will only fail if the diamond finesse loses and North holds ♣J9xx

 

Having a degree of flexibility what constitutes a positive response to 2!C opening bid works well on this hand, but if opener had a different type of hand he might be embarrassed to find that your only control is the ♣ ace.

 

Breaking the Kokish puppet 2♠ bid with a 2NT transfer to clubs is mentioned on Bridgeguys (as I have indicated in my earlier post.)

 

Personally I am not keen on bidding 3♣ over 2♣: a 2♣ opener together with a positive response usually results in slam being reached. Many 2♣ openers are just 8 1/2 or 9 tricks, and only when opener turns up with ♣ KQx does the ♣ suit run without a hitch except on one 4-0 break.

 

And it also depends if you are using 0314 or 1430 RKCB too as game as opposed to slam may be your only makeable contract.

[msjennifer]

Did anyone open 3NT? Responder could then value his hand at 8 points in clubs and ask aces.

3NT opening is played as Gambling bid.Perhaps this bid to show 26 points is reserved for novices.

[msjennifer]

I was very pleased to read the various bidding adjustments suggested by many.However,none have visualized any Sound answer acceptable to fit variously aggregated 26 points.It is possible to construct hands where there are two outright losers.The strong club system as played by Meckstroth and Rodwell could possibly bid this slam in a whiff.And perhaps they will also find that North does not hold J9xx of clubs.

[GrahamJson]

Presumably after the sequence 2C - 2D -3NT Stayman and transfers would apply, in which case 4S ought to indicate a minor suited hand with slam interest. With a highly suitable hand east can then bid 5NT; pick a slam. West can then complete the good work with a bid of 6C.

 

It seems to me that this is a sequence that a good pair could produce without prior agreements, although I can imagine a certain amount of head scratching, particularly following the 4S bid.

[nekthen]

Just out of interest. It seems to me that 6N makes very nearly as often as 6C. So shouldn't we be in 6N?

[miamijd]

2C 2D

3NT(1) 4S(2)

5NT(3) 6C

 

(1) 26-27 (2NT is 22-23; Kokish 2H then 2NT after the 2S relay is 24-25)

(2) minor suit interest

(3) pick a slam

 

You have 26, not 25 (and a pretty decent 26, too), so you are too good for Kokish then 2NT, which in Standard American Expert shows 24-25. So you have to bid 3NT (26-27), which makes things a bit awkward for finding a minor suit (4C is majors; 4D is hearts; and 4H is spades). 4S shows minor suit interest, so that's what partner has to bid, and now since you have a nice hand with great support for either minor, you can just bid 5NT to tell partner to pick a slam.

[GrahamJson]

Err, I think that is pretty much what I said.

[johnu]

You have 26, not 25 (and a pretty decent 26, too), so you are too good for Kokish then 2NT, which in Standard American Expert shows 24-25. So you have to bid 3NT (26-27)

 

Is Standard American Expert a real system or just your description? In Bridge World Standard 2017, 2♣ and then a 2NT rebid is 22-24, and getting to 2NT by going through 2♥ is 25+. BWS is based on common expert practice. Even if you had other sequences for higher point count ranges, 26 HCP would still be a 2NT rebid.

[alok c]

Just out of interest. It seems to me that 6N makes very nearly as often as 6C. So shouldn't we be in 6N?

No.If North is 4c ♣J,against a ♥ lead,6NT has no chance( theoretically for other lead it may succeed if ♦Q drops in 2 rounds) but 6♣ makes if ♦Q is onside.

[miamijd]

Is Standard American Expert a real system or just your description? In Bridge World Standard 2017, 2♣ and then a 2NT rebid is 22-24, and getting to 2NT by going through 2♥ is 25+. BWS is based on common expert practice. Even if you had other sequences for higher point count ranges, 26 HCP would still be a 2NT rebid.

 

If you play Kokish, then 2C followed by 2NT isn't 22-24 any more. It's 22-23. Kokish, then 2NT is 24-25. 2C then 3NT is 26-27; Kokish then 3NT is 28+. BWS doeesn't incorporate Kokish, but I would venture that most top serious players play it.

 

Cheers,

mike

[Vampyr]

We would start:

 

2 ♣-2♦

2NT-3♠

3NT-4♥

 

=slam try with clubs.

[johnu]

If you play Kokish, then 2C followed by 2NT isn't 22-24 any more. It's 22-23. Kokish, then 2NT is 24-25. 2C then 3NT is 26-27; Kokish then 3NT is 28+. BWS doeesn't incorporate Kokish, but I would venture that most top serious players play it.

 

Cheers,

mike

 

BWS doesn't call the 2♥ marionette bid Kokish. The call it Birthright (I don't remember the story why they changed the name, but Kokish has long been associated with the TBW) in the BWS 2017 summary. Read for yourself,

 

http://www.bridgeworld.com/indexphp.php?page=/pages/readingroom/bws/bwscompletesystem.html#IVD

 

The 2001 system had the same point ranges as I previously mentioned but the 2♥ bid was called Kokish.

[Vampyr]

If you play Kokish, then 2C followed by 2NT isn't 22-24 any more. It's 22-23. Kokish, then 2NT is 24-25. 2C then 3NT is 26-27; Kokish then 3NT is 28+. BWS doeesn't incorporate Kokish, but I would venture that most top serious players play it.

 

Cheers,

mikes

 

Better to open 2♣ with 20-21(22). Then you can get out in two of a major or three of a minor opposite this range (major-suit negatives and bids other than 2♠ over 2♥ provide this opportunity).