Italians and the Mexican

[mike777]

Comments welcomed.

 

Just noticed all 3 Italian pairs use some form of Mexican 2D// 18-19 Balanced.

 

An old, old buddy taught me this last year but do not see anyone on BBO playing it. I understand a few pro's in the Southwest do but it seems ignored otherwise.

 

I assume since all 3 pairs play it, it has great practical tactical advantages.

 

The version I know allows for off shape openings as well.

Bocchi and Duboin have switched 2C and 2D openings which sounds interesting.

[Elianna]

A form of Mexican 2d used to be one of my reg partner's favorite bid. I managed to convince him to drop it from our cc when he forgot what we were playing, and he opened 2d (intending it as a weak two) and we got a giant penalty for psyching a strong, art opening (which is one of the few disallowed psyches).

 

Sorry, not too relevant to your question, but I thought that you might find it amusing. ;)

[Cascade]

... and he opened 2d (intending it as a weak two) and we got a giant penalty for psyching a strong, art opening (which is one of the few disallowed psyches).

 

Sorry, not too relevant to your question, but I thought that you might find it amusing. ;)

You were done. A mistake is not a psyche.

 

A psychic bid is specifically defined as a deliberate and gross misdescription of honour strength or suit length.

 

Your partner's opening was "gross" but not deliberate so should have been accepted without penalty.

 

There are no penalties for forgetting your system.

[NickToll]

The same old story: use 2♦ to fill a gap in your system, or to keep awkward hands out of one-of-a-suit opening bids.

 

Mexican 2♦ makes a lot of sense to me. It's not a great bid in itself, but enables those pairs to rebid 2NT with special hands (typically strong unbalanced, maybe with some kind of fit for responder's suit): furthermore:

- they don't need to bother with 18-19 balanced in competitive sequences

- they are able to double for take-out when it's right to do so...

[mcphee]

One of the big advantages of 2D 18-19 balanced is you do not waste a lot of energy handling 2NT jump rebids. While many pairs have Wolff Signoff or some form of Transfers to use over 2NT rebids my guess is that most do not which punchs a small hole in the constructive bidding dept.

[Gerben42]

I prefer keeping my hole and putting all these hands into 1♣. I am still too young not using 2♦ as a preempt I guess.

 

In Dutch Doubleton (similar to the Italian system) the sequence 1♣ - 1M - 2♦ is sometimes used as natural OR the 2NT rebid. As you would need some new conventions after the 2♦ opener anyway, I will just stick to this.

[hotShot]

The advantage is not only the bid itself, it's the other bids that get better defined.

 

A lot ot people open this with 1minor and intend to jump to 2NT later.

This means that a partner holding less than 6 hcp has to decide to keep the bidding open or to pass your one level bid. Without the facts,he might decide wrong.

 

Of cause it's also good to be able to play 2M contracts, where everybody else is playing 3M.

[TimG]

I assume since all 3 pairs play it, it has great practical tactical advantages.

"Great" may be a stretch. I think a Mexcian 2D helps cover a gap in ranges when a strong 1NT opening bid is something like 14-16 or 13-15. These intermediate ranges can put a lot of pressure on the NT structure. I believe the Italians play these sorts of intermediate strong NTs (and don't pay much attention to things like 5422 shape or 5cM when deciding to open 1NT).

 

The Mexican 2D might not have the same value in a standard strong NT system.

 

Tim

[mike777]

I assume since all 3 pairs play it, it has great practical tactical advantages.

"Great" may be a stretch. I think a Mexcian 2D helps cover a gap in ranges when a strong 1NT opening bid is something like 14-16 or 13-15. These intermediate ranges can put a lot of pressure on the NT structure. I believe the Italians play these sorts of intermediate strong NTs (and don't pay much attention to things like 5422 shape or 5cM when deciding to open 1NT).

 

The Mexican 2D might not have the same value in a standard strong NT system.

 

Tim

Ya he taught me 14-16 along with 2D.

Ya, offshape 1nt and offshape 2D.

 

I get a chuckle that this old partner and his regular f2f p, both who are great players, agree to disagree what offshape means.

[Guest Jlall]

If you are of the school that responds super light (guilty) then you know the rebid you fear the most is 2N by partner. This eliminates that :blink:

[pclayton]

So when the Italians are playing Mexican 2♦ (actually I think Bocchi /Duboin use 2♣ for this bid), what is:

 

1 minor - 1 major - 2N?

[PriorKnowledge]

So when the Italians are playing Mexican 2♦ (actually I think Bocchi /Duboin use 2♣ for this bid), what is:

 

1 minor - 1 major - 2N?

How about a gambling type 3N but with a hole in your minor. Like Q10x x Ax AQJxxxx

Responder bids 3N with misisng honor and bids 3m without.

[pbleighton]

"If you are of the school that responds super light (guilty) then you know the rebid you fear the most is 2N by partner."

 

Justin -

 

How light is super light? I respond with all 4 counts myself.

 

Peter

[Guest Jlall]

i would respond with Qxxxx in a major and out.

[Cascade]

These are my methods over a Mexican 2♦ and the related changes to opener's rebid after 2NT is freed for other purposes.

 

I am sure my methods are sub-optimal but they have the advantage of being relatively easier to remember as essentially we play half of our structure over 1NT and our structure over 2NT openings.

 

These are the responses and developments:

 

2♥ --- transfer to spades. This is to play or two suited. We do not have meaning for every rebid.

 

2♠ --- Puppet to 2NT. Then over 2NT we play our structure over a 2NT opening - Puppet Stayman, Jacoby Transfers, 3♠ 1 or 2-suited minor hand, Texas Transfers etc. One minor change is that a Jacoby Transfer is always single-suited (unless weak with hearts). This means a subsequent 4minor is always a cue-bid (or singleton).

 

2NT --- Forces 3♣. Either weak with clubs or two suited with hearts. A rebid of 3♦ shows hearts and diamonds, 3♥ hearts and clubs GF, 3♠ 4-5 in the majors.

 

Because of a (silly) quirk in the local regulations we cannot play Mexican 2♦ in pairs events unless it is forcing. Therefore in pairs we play 2NT can be weak with diamonds in which case you correct after 3♣ and a rebid of 3♥ is two-suited with either minor but I guess that doesnt need to concern others.

 

3♣ --- clubs with a singleton diamond. This is our structure for 3♣ over a 1NT opening.

 

3♦ --- diamonds with a singleton club. These two bids may have a four-card major but one is not promised.

 

3♥ --- four hearts and a stiff spade.

 

3♠ --- four spades and a stiff heart.

 

3NT --- does not exist since we prefer to transfer to NTs with 2♠ so that the opener becomes declarer.

 

There is a structure in the book "The No Trump Zone" by Danny Kleinman. That structure has the distinct advantage of having the strong hand declare often by extensive use of the transfer principle.

 

Our jump rebid structure after a one-level opening changes as follows:

 

1x 1y

2NT --- equivalent to 3x rebid in standard systems but denying three cards in partner's suit.

 

We play this bid as forcing. Responder's weakest rebid is 3x. This simply shows a hand that would have passed opener's jump rebid. Rebidding responder's suit is forcing and shows a six-card suit. A new suit rebid is natural and forcing - either a five-card suit or a stopper for NTs.

 

1x 1y

3x --- this shows a standard 3x rebid with three-cards in responder's suit. It is non-forcing. A correction to 3y is also NF. A new suit is either a stopper for NTs or a cue for responder's suit. If responder wants to agree opener's suit then we raise to 4x - forcing.

 

We have trialed two systems for hands that are too strong 2NT or 3x. In one we put hands with three-card support and 19 points in with the 2NT rebid. Responder could use new minor forcing to checkback for 3-card support. In the other we jumped to 3NT with GF values and three of the major. In the first case 3NT denied three-card support and showed 19 hcp or a bit less with a seven-card suit. In the second case we put the 19 hcp in with 2NT since it was forcing.

 

These responses are likely to evolve. There are some other jump-shifts that are not needed naturally. We may use some of those for the GF three-card support hands. Then 2NT and 3NT would both deny three-card support.

 

Since we play a weak NT we never needed to jump to 3NT naturally over a two over one response since a 2NT rebid was forcing. Therefore even before we played Mexican 2♦ we used 3NT conventionally as a raise of responder's suit.

 

1x 2m

3NT --- around 14-16/7 with four-card support for responder's minor (4-card). This denies a singleton.

 

We then "cue-bid" the other minor to show a slammish hand with 3-card support for opener's major.

 

1♠ 2♥

3NT --- around 17+ with support for hearts (3 or 4-card since 2♥ shows five). This denies a singleton.