What action to take with 4-5 majors

[MrAce]

How does your partner know if you are balancing with an 11-count or actually have additional values? I am not being critical but am curious how you think a partner with a hand such as KJxxxx, Kx, xx, xxx should bid in an auction that starts: 1D-1H-3D*-?

 

For me, it is a pass, but when partner reopens with a double I can confidently bid 4S. This is a losing style when both sides can make a partscore, I realize. So I was only wondering how this problem is being dealt with these days or if it is even considered a problem.

 

The hand you gave can try 4♠. I would be much more confident bidding 4 had my diamonds been xxx instead of club suit in your example. But you are placing pd with a 6 card suit and Kx in main suit of overcaller. I think 4 ♠ is very reasonable shot. 3 ♦ is cold at least. Make the spades 5 card and I would always bid 3♠. No need to punish pd for guessing we can have a good spot to play at 3 level. Add something else and the hand you gave can easily double 3♦.

 

Now change the pd's hand to Kxx xxxx xxx KTx and you would suffer for starting double. He would pass and you need to double again which begs the same question you asked. How will your pd know whether you started double with 11 hcp and doubled again with 11 hcp or whether you have extras or not. Had you started 1♥, his hand improves by like 4 times! xxx in the suit you are expected to be short and a 5-4 or 6-4 ♥ fit + 2 side kings!

[Winstonm]

The hand you gave can try 4♠. I would be much more confident bidding 4 had my diamonds been xxx instead of club suit in your example. But you are placing pd with a 6 card suit and Kx in main suit of overcaller. I think 4 ♠ is very reasonable shot. 3 ♦ is cold at least. Make the spades 5 card and I would always bid 3♠. No need to punish pd for guessing we can have a good spot to play at 3 level. Add something else and the hand you gave can easily double 3♦.

 

Now change the pd's hand to Kxx xxxx xxx KTx and you would suffer for starting double. He would pass and you need to double again which begs the same question you asked. How will your pd know whether you started double with 11 hcp and doubled again with 11 hcp or whether you have extras or not. Had you started 1♥, his hand improves by like 4 times! xxx in the suit you are expected to be short and a 5-4 or 6-4 ♥ fit + 2 side kings!

 

No amount of justification can alter the facts that bidding a suit and then doubling with both 11-counts and 16+-counts has to create an insoluble problem for partner, which is not necessarily wrong or a bad thing because it allows more competition with weaker hands. But I think it is important to understand the give-ups one has to live with when adopting that style.

[MrAce]

No amount of justification can alter the facts that bidding a suit and then doubling with both 11-counts and 16+-counts has to create an insoluble problem for partner, which is not necessarily wrong or a bad thing because it allows more competition with weaker hands. But I think it is important to understand the give-ups one has to live with when adopting that style.

 

What are you even talking about when say 16+ ? Overcall is already limited to 17 for most people.

And pd knows you are 11 ish, with 16+ and perfect take out shape you would start dbl and then dbl again.

[Cyberyeti]

No amount of justification can alter the facts that bidding a suit and then doubling with both 11-counts and 16+-counts has to create an insoluble problem for partner, which is not necessarily wrong or a bad thing because it allows more competition with weaker hands. But I think it is important to understand the give-ups one has to live with when adopting that style.

 

We do this, and it really isn't too much of a problem, our simple overcalls are pretty sound at the lower end but go up to much better than most peoples'.

[mcphee]

When you over call you are basically suggesting a competitive hand over a wide range of values, a lead suggestion. To me this H suit is not suitable especially looking at 4S. Double to me is clearly more in line with my hand.

[Winstonm]

What are you even talking about when say 16+ ? Overcall is already limited to 17 for most people.

And pd knows you are 11 ish, with 16+ and perfect take out shape you would start dbl and then dbl again.

 

If you don't like my numbers, pick a range. Surely there is a hand too weak for that action. If so, there is your bottom. If you always double first with 17, there is your top. But the issue is how big of spread lies between the low end and high end of overcall and then double back in.

 

When you have a wide spread of strength, using the same bid to describe both makes partner have to guess which hand you have. Do you dispute that? When you reserve bid and double back in for the upper end of your overcall range, you give up some chances to compete with lesser hands? Is there any argument there?

 

I'm not arguing that one style is superior to the other. But I do argue that their are drawbacks to both.

[aguahombre]

I never understood the idea that a consideration when making a direct overcall should be its lead-directing effect. If we don't buy the contract, I will most likely be the one on lead; and, if my LHO bids NT Partner will have a clue.

 

In the context here -- double vs overcall -- it is even less likely that Partner will be on lead against a Spade or Club contract.

[NickRW]

IMO 1♥, then re-enter with X if needed