What now ?

[Cyberyeti]

[hv=pc=n&s=shak742da6cakjt52&d=s&v=n&b=15&a=1c(Polish%20club)1sp4s]133|200[/hv]

 

This was a situation faced by our team mates, I'm not totally familiar with Polish club but I believe it's 1+♣, clubs, weak NTish or any 17+.

 

 

If you try 4N as 2 places to play, partner bids 5♣, what now if anything ?

 

 

Bonus question, how do you handle the same auction in a natural system, or if you started with 1♥.

[mike777]

I will try 5c

 

 

would still start with 1c and rebid 5c.

 

tempted to start with 2c but will chicken out and start with one club.

[appelflapj]

maybe moronic but i bid 5 hearts now

[manudude03]

4NT, then pass 5C.

[mr1303]

4NT, then raise 5C to 6C.

 

The problem with 5C here is it sounds like the natural version of Polish Club (16+ with clubs, rather than the Rock of Gibraltar we have)

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=shak742da6cakjt52&d=s&v=n&b=15&a=1c(Polish%20club)1sp4s]133|200|

This was a situation faced by our team mates, I'm not totally familiar with Polish club but I believe it's 1+♣, clubs, weak NTish or any 17+.

 

If you try 4N as 2 places to play, partner bids 5♣, what now if anything ?

 

Bonus question, how do you handle the same auction in a natural system, or if you started with 1♥.[/hv]

Polish club. Open 1♣ = ART. Rebid 4N = ART 2 places to play and when partner bids 5♣, I rank

1. Pass = NAT. Take the money.
2. 6♣ = NAT. Brave.

Natural system. Open 1♣ = NAT. You might rebid 5♥ but 4N = ART. 2 places to play is safer and When partner bids 5♣, Pass.

 

Canapé system. Open 1♥ = "NAT". Rebid 5♣. Tough if partner has 2 doubletons :(

[Winstonm]

I will double and correct 5D to 5H.

[gszes]

The fact we have a rock does not mean as much as it should since p passed over 1s w/o obvious spade length. We do not really want to "muddy" the waters with anything like 4n since p might all too easily bypass 5c with a 3343 hand (ouch). 5c seems the safest place to play. While there seems to be little chance the opps can make 4s that does not mean they wont get close and taking the money here seems like guaranteeing chump change when big money may easily be available. Lets not LOSE the match on this hand go for the risk vs reward bid of 5c and IMHO I would do the same if I opened a nat 1c OR a nat 1h. The artificial 1c merely makes me happier about bidding 5c:)

[sfi]

I'm not totally familiar with Polish club but I believe it's 1+♣, clubs, weak NTish or any 17+.

 

The published description from the most widely used reference is:

1. Weak: 12-14 balanced (no 5 card suit apart from maybe clubs) or 4-4-1-4.

2. Intermediate: 15-17, 5+ clubs.

3. Strong: 18+ any shape.

 

Not that this changes the decision opener faces. However, it is worth noting partner is less likely to stretch for a double or 1NT response than when playing standard.

 

4NT looks normal. Over a 5C response I would bid 5S - it's unlikely I can convince partner to bid the grand if it's right but they might have an interesting hand that couldn't bid earlier. Over 5D I will try 5H, which probably means we don't find 6H even when it makes. I'm feeling guilty about this, but we don't have the same expectation of a fit as over 5C.

[Fluffy]

4NT then raise, they will probably save.

[helene_t]

maybe moronic but i bid 5 hearts now

Remember that a Polish club could be any 18+. By bidding 5♥ you suggest long hearts and nothing else. It certainly doesn't suggest club length.

[Cyberyeti]

Remember that a Polish club could be any 18+. By bidding 5♥ you suggest long hearts and nothing else. It certainly doesn't suggest club length.

 

What does 4N then correcting 5♣ to 5♥ mean ?

[helene_t]

What does 4N then correcting 5♣ to 5♥ mean ?

Good question. Maybe 6♥5♦ with better hearts? Or maybe just hearts, but stronger than a direct 5♥?

 

It obviously can't have a very precise meaning since we need to be able to bid all strong hands. Many can start with a double, of course.

[miamijd]

Regardless of whether you are playing Polish club or standard, 4NT at this point has to be clubs and a red suit, so that describes your hand. When partner bids 5C, about all you can do is pass. Sure, you could be cold for seven on as little as

 

xxx Qxx xxx xxxx

 

but there's just no way to tell. Partner could have

 

Qxx xx xxxxx xx

 

and even 5C could possibly go set.

[Cyberyeti]

Regardless of whether you are playing Polish club or standard, 4NT at this point has to be clubs and a red suit, so that describes your hand. When partner bids 5C, about all you can do is pass.

 

Does it ? what do you do with the same hand with the minors reversed (still 1♣ in Polish) ? I think 4N is any 2 suits other than spades.

[rmnka447]

You've got to beat 4 ♠ at least 4 tricks to make up for a vulnerable game making. So, with a 3 loser hand, I think the percentage is to bid on and try to make the game at the 5 level.

 

4 NT as two places to play stands out.

 

If partner bids 5 ♣, then you pass and take what looks to be a pretty sure positive. Their preempting has robbed you of the ability to know if 6 can make. Being in 5 making 6 doesn't mean you'll lose a slam swing. If your teammates also preempt, the opponents might be facing the same dilemma as you do.

 

Where you might bid 6 is if you are behind and feel the need to create swings.

[daffydoc]

I know a lot of players don't particularly like opening 2c on 2 suiters - I tend to disagree and with 5 defensive tricks would have opened 2c and over 4s bid 4NT as two places to play - obviously correcting 5d to 5H but would raise 5c to 6c. Given the Polish club opener i would bid the same 4NT as two places to play, daffydoc

[dow1978]

Double 4♠

[msjennifer]

Since a slam is a very likely possibility,I would like to know what does a bid of 5 S now mean in Polish system..If it means Hearts and Clubs then it's OK to bid it.A double in this situation is surely a TOD guaranteeing a heart suit and 5H bid by partner can be converted to 6C (in this particular hand) or 6D (if the second suit was Diamonds and not Clubs).These bids may be enable the NS to play the right slam.

[sfi]

Since a slam is a very likely possibility,I would like to know what does a bid of 5 S now mean in Polish system..If it means Hearts and Clubs then it's OK to bid it.A double in this situation is surely a TOD guaranteeing a heart suit and 5H bid by partner can be converted to 6C (in this particular hand) or 6D (if the second suit was Diamonds and not Clubs).These bids may be enable the NS to play the right slam.

 

Polish Club doesn't specifically define 5S, so it can mean whatever it means in other systems. I would expect a very good two-suiter with first-round spade control, but I'm not sure how standard that would be.

 

Double needs to be values but not pure penalty, with a balanced 18 count being the expected minimum.

[gordontd]

Remember that a Polish club could be any 18+. By bidding 5♥ you suggest long hearts and nothing else. It certainly doesn't suggest club length.

Really? Why did you bid 4NT first then? I understand your point and that certain combinations would give us a problem (bidding 5D after 5C would show the reds, not the minors) but I think 5H over 5C has to be clubs and hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

Double 4♠

 

This netted 500 at my table and needed a trump promotion to get that, so even 600 will gain on the board.

 

Partner's hand was J109, xx, Kxxx, xxxx so the grand made in comfort with clubs 2-1 and hearts 4-2, team mates +640.

[msjennifer]

This netted 500 at my table and needed a trump promotion to get that, so even 600 will gain on the board.

 

Partner's hand was J109, xx, Kxxx, xxxx so the grand made in comfort with clubs 2-1 and hearts 4-2, team mates +640.

If,in this sequence,one wants to make a realistic bid there is no bid available to show this giant of a double suiter except a take out double,then it is very unfortunate and naive to treat it as penalty double.No body will make a penalty double on any hand because we all know that opponents can even score a grand slam in spades.The double has to be a TOD.

[Cyberyeti]

If,in this sequence,one wants to make a realistic bid there is no bid available to show this giant of a double suiter except a take out double,then it is very unfortunate and naive to treat it as penalty double.No body will make a penalty double on any hand because we all know that opponents can even score a grand slam in spades.The double has to be a TOD.

 

What do you do with a flattish 22 count ? Remember this is polish club and all big hands open 1♣ as well as some less big hands.

 

Do you really want to bid opposite say K, KQJx, AQJx, AQxx ?

[helene_t]

Really? Why did you bid 4NT first then? I understand your point and that certain combinations would give us a problem (bidding 5D after 5C would show the reds, not the minors) but I think 5H over 5C has to be clubs and hearts.

Oh yes absolutely, that's my point actually. Direct 5♥ now just shows hearts. 4NT followed by 5♥ shows hearts and a minor - presumably the minor which p did not pick, so in this case hearts and clubs.

 

So indeed, to show clubs along with the hearts you have to bid 4NT, not 5♥ directly.