Slam despite misfit?

[helene_t]

AKxxx-xx-void-KQJTxx

 

Partner opens first seat r/r MP, uncontested. 1♦ is SA style, basically (with a 6322 shape and 15-17 she might have opened 1NT, up/downgrades are infrequent).

 

1♦-2♣* (*natural GF, not MAFIA)

2♦**-2♠*** (** tends to be a 6-card suit. ***3♠ would be splinter)

3♦-3♠

3NT-?

[nullve]

I voted 5♣ because

 

* I expect it to be easier to make 11 tricks in 5♣ than 9 tricks in 3N;

* I doubt we can bid 6♣ with any confidence on the rare occasions when it's right. (Well, maybe partner will be able to raise 5♣ to 6.)

[TylerE]

Easy pass for me. It's MP and we're in 3NT.

[eagles123]

we've shown a 6-5 GF and partners opted for 3N - who are we to overrule?

[Cyberyeti]

we've shown a 6-5 GF and partners opted for 3N - who are we to overrule?

 

We haven't shown a hand where the club suit works as trumps opposite a singleton.

 

Your hand might be waste paper in 3N if partner has a stiff spade and they lead one. You might also fail if they lead a heart taking out partner's stop and cash a bundle of them when in with A♣. This is a suit play hand at this stage, why is 4♣ minorwood ? should be natural and would be what I bid here.

[TylerE]

And we could be off AK♥ and A♣ in 5♣ with 3N making comfortably.

[eagles123]

We haven't shown a hand where the club suit works as trumps opposite a singleton.

 

Your hand might be waste paper in 3N if partner has a stiff spade and they lead one. You might also fail if they lead a heart taking out partner's stop and cash a bundle of them when in with A♣. This is a suit play hand at this stage, why is 4♣ minorwood ? should be natural and would be what I bid here.

 

when we've shown a 6-5 it's hardly news of the century that our points are in our long suits

[rmnka447]

Pass.

 

Have you misrepresented your hand by a GF 2 ♣ followed by bidding ♠ twice?

 

Once you've described your hand and partner has made a decision, you have to respect partner's decision. If it's wrong, it's on him/her.

 

Yeah, your hand might be useless at NT if partner holds a stiff ♠, but you have no reason to believe that's the case. You're a favorite to deliver 7 tricks at NT if partner has a doubleton ♠.

 

Bidding again is rebidding your values a second time which is rarely right.

[nige1]

AKxxx-xx-void-KQJTxx

Partner opens first seat r/r MP, uncontested. 1♦ is SA style, basically (with a 6322 shape and 15-17 she might have opened 1NT, up/downgrades are infrequent).

 

1♦-2♣* (*natural GF, not MAFIA)

2♦**-2♠*** (** tends to be a 6-card suit. ***3♠ would be splinter)

3♦-3♠

3NT-?

Agreeing with majority. I rank

1. Pass = NAT. You've described your hand to partner and he's made a decision. You can justify your pass in the post-mortem even if better contracts are available. 3N is likely to have play. Even with your hand exposed as dummy, 3N might be hard to defend. A typical hand for partner: ♠ Q x ♥ K Q T ♦ A J x x x x x ♣ x
2. 4♣ = NAT. F1. Allows partner to prefer ♠s. Your bidding hasn't promised a 1-loser ♣ suit. Even 6♣ has good chances opposite, say ♠ x x ♥ A K ♦ Q x x x x x x ♣ A x
3. 4♠ = NAT. But a distortion since the bid should show more shape.
4. Other = Weird.

[Cyberyeti]

when we've shown a 6-5 it's hardly news of the century that our points are in our long suits

 

But there's a big difference between this hand and AKJ10x, xx, void KQxxxx opposite a misfit

[aawk]

Holding a 6206 pattern my first action would be calling the director.

 

Guess you where holding a 6205 pattern.

 

If I play a system where you only can show a 6 card from a 6-5 pattern I would play a different system.

 

If your are stuck with your system accept you will/can miss the best contract.

[nullve]

But there's a big difference between this hand and AKJ10x, xx, void KQxxxx opposite a misfit

Holding a 6206 pattern my first action would be calling the director.

 

Guess you where holding a 6205 pattern.

You read the ♠10 as ♠1 and ♠0?

[miamijd]

This is an easy one -- pass. You've shown your hand nicely; partner says he wants to play 3NT. WTP?

 

But I do take exception to the fact that 2D over 2C shows 6+. Maybe that's your bidding style, but it's not a good treatment. Rebidding 2D on almost all hands with 5+ diamonds is more or less standard nowadays and generally works out much better.

 

Cheers,

mike

[Cyberyeti]

Holding a 6206 pattern my first action would be calling the director.

 

Guess you where holding a 6205 pattern.

 

If I play a system where you only can show a 6 card from a 6-5 pattern I would play a different system.

 

If your are stuck with your system accept you will/can miss the best contract.

 

Try actually reading, 5206 AKJTx I just spelt out the 10

[aawk]

Try actually reading, 5206 AKJTx I just spelt out the 10

 

 

Sorry you are right it was a 5206 pattern.

 

So if 3s shows a strong 5xx6 pattern to your partner and he bid 3nt I would pass.

[mdgraham]

Pass. You have shown your shape and partner has made a decision based on that, but he does not know the clubs are semi-solid.

 

However, is it right to continue? For a slam in clubs to be right partner needs solid values in the reds (Ak, KQJ, etc) rather than slow values (AQ9, KJ10 etc) so that we can dump our low spades. Also, pard does not know our clubs are (for practical purposes) semi-solid, so will incline to 3NT with, say, 9x in clubs.

 

I would pass reluctantly at the table and would not be surprised to find that 6C is making.

[Cyberyeti]

Pass. You have shown your shape and partner has made a decision based on that, but he does not know the clubs are semi-solid.

 

However, is it right to continue? For a slam in clubs to be right partner needs solid values in the reds (Ak, KQJ, etc) rather than slow values (AQ9, KJ10 etc) so that we can dump our low spades. Also, pard does not know our clubs are (for practical purposes) semi-solid, so will incline to 3NT with, say, 9x in clubs.

 

I would pass reluctantly at the table and would not be surprised to find that 6C is making.

 

I would be more worried 3N wasn't making but 5♣ was

[PhilG007]

we've shown a 6-5 GF and partners opted for 3N - who are we to overrule?

I would certainly overrule 3NT Hands that don't fit in a suit,very often don't

fit in No Trumps either(!)

[1eyedjack]

I would certainly overrule 3NT Hands that don't fit in a suit,very often don't

fit in No Trumps either(!)

Your partner knows that as well as you. Despite which he suggests 3N. What do you have that he does not know about? Apart from superior judgement, that is.

 

I reckon that one case for passing is that you haven't (yet) been doubled.

 

Love the thread title. Here we are worried about which game might have a chance of making.

[nullve]

we've shown a 6-5 GF and partners opted for 3N - who are we to overrule?

Once you've described your hand and partner has made a decision, you have to respect partner's decision. If it's wrong, it's on him/her.

This is an easy one -- pass. You've shown your hand nicely; partner says he wants to play 3NT. WTP?

So if 3s shows a strong 5xx6 pattern to your partner and he bid 3nt I would pass.

Your partner knows that as well as you. Despite which he suggests 3N. What do you have that he does not know about? Apart from superior judgement, that is.

Maybe 5♣ is wrong, but there must still be exceptions to the rule

 

'If you've shown your hand and partner bids 3N, you must pass.'

 

(Consider childish examples such as a 3♥ opening showing 37 hcp.)

[mike777]

AKxxx-xx-void-KQJTxx

 

Partner opens first seat r/r MP, uncontested. 1♦ is SA style, basically (with a 6322 shape and 15-17 she might have opened 1NT, up/downgrades are infrequent).

 

1♦-2♣* (*natural GF, not MAFIA)

2♦**-2♠*** (** tends to be a 6-card suit. ***3♠ would be splinter)

3♦-3♠

3NT-?

 

pass, not problem yet

[jallerton]

Pass. Partner didn't bid 2NT over 2♠ but presumably must have a double heart stop to bid 3NT. I reckon she has something like a 2-4-7-0 shape. That suggests I should be bidding on with my red suits reversed, but not here. There again, if partner is 1-4-7-1 then a spade lead might kill the entry to my hand, so it certainly could be right to play in clubs.

[gszes]

THE MINORITY REPORT is back. I do not necessarily care for 4c as minorwood (vs a natural slam try) but it just seems wrong to not give this at least a looksee. There was SOME reason p felt bidding diamonds a THIRD time was more important than some number of NT over our 2s bid. These kinds of delayed NT stoppers tend to be the ace and spaces. Opener will not normally go out of their way expecting 100% of our values in the black suits AND a max 1 loser club suit that is just way too much optimism. The hand may indeed be a total misfit 1471 (opener)

but then there may be little play for 3n. My main concern is deciding between 4n and 5c if not bidding slam (after minorwood response). It is hard to accept the idea of 5c at MP and signing off in 4n might still be a winner if slam is not desirable.

[benlessard]

It depend on your style to handle stoppers and half stoppers. With 2 stoppers or positionnal holdings (Kxx,Qx) i would always bid 2NT before 3D even with just half a stop so for me opener is sure to have the A of H here.

 

 

Also if you play a show style rather than ask.

 

3H would be be half a stopper and 3S just a punt so the 56 is not showned.

 

If you play ask rather than 3H is asking and 3S is 5??6

 

3H--??

 

3S= half a stopper in H

3NT= full stopper in H.