11 + 12 = 26

[m1cha]

I open 1♠ with a minimum opener, some 11 - 13 HCP. Robot partner bids 1NT. I place my obligatory rebid of 2♥ with a 4-card suit and get raised to 4♥ which I cannot make. Latest example:

[handviewer=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=m1cha&s=SQJ762HAQ54DKJC42&wn=Roboter&w=SA3HK62DQ764C9853&nn=Roboter&n=S84HJ987DT3CAKJ76&en=Roboter&e=SKT95HT3DA9852CQT&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1S(Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P1N(Forcing%20one%20notrump%20--%203-%20%21S%3B%206+%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points)P2H(New%20suit%20--%204+%20%21H%3B%205+%20%21S%3B%2011+%20HCP%3B%2012-18%20total%20points)P4H(4+%20%21H%3B%203-%20%21S%3B%2011-12%20total%20points)PPP&p=D4D3DADJD8DKD6DTC2C9CJCQS5SJSAS4H2H7HTHQHAH6H8H3C4C3CKCTCAS9S2C5C6D2H4C8S6S3S8STD5H5D7C7S7DQH9SKHJD9SQHK][400|300][/handviewer]

The label says 4♥ is "4+ ♥; 3- ♠; 11-12 total points". Don't we need 26 points for a full game and is 11 + 12 = 26? Isn't 11 - 12 points usually a limit raise worth a bid of 3♥, not 4? Isn't it the essence of the 2/1 system that a 1NT reply denies a full game opposite a minimum 1♠ opener? Okay I can understand that a hand can be worth jumping to 4♥ with exceptional support but I am not talking about exceptions. It's 4♥ again and again and again. Actually I cannot recall a single instance when I was raised to 3♥ after this initial sequence, always 4♥. Is there an error in the bidding list?

 

EDIT: See post #4.

[AyunuS]

It probably valued the side 5-card suit as worth something, and figured you'd likely have a little bit more than 12, so I wouldn't say bidding a tiny bit aggressively is a bug.

[m1cha]

It probably valued the side 5-card suit as worth something

I would have. But I wouldn't have counted my doubleton in partner's first suit as anything, so I'd be at 11 points and a raise to 3, not 4. GIB on the other hand does give a point for the small doubleton in partner's suit but does not give a point for a long suit (according to the documentation at the last time I read it) also resulting at 11 total points not worth a raise to 4, IMO. But if for any reason GIB would find the hand worth 12 points and if would find 12 points worth full game, then it should 2♣ in the first round, not 1NT, and I wouldn't have said anything because it's normal that we disagree on close decisions. But first bidding 1NT, then 4♥, always, that looks like a bug to me.

[m1cha]

Okay, I give up. It's not a bug, it's a system issue. I did what I should have done earlier, which is check the 3♥ rebid: it shows 8 - 10 total points. It's just that opposite a minimum opening of 11 HCP, partner almost always has 11+ total points when playing best hand and that's why we end up in 4♥ so often. The 2♥ rebid has just a wide range, and it makes sense to invite to 4♥ with 8+ points if opener can have 18 points, in a way. On the other hand, ignoring that we end up in an unmakable contract systemically if opener has a minimum of 12 points does not feel right. Anyway, that's not my business here. I may end up doing what I have seen other players do lots of times, which is pass the forcing 1NT response when I have a minimum. In this way I will miss a good contract if partner happens to have an invitational hand with fit and intends a 3♠ rebid, but these hands are not so frequent. There's no free lunch.

 

In the real world I play 2/1 with one partner but we open 1NT with the strong 5422 distributions (showing hearts over Stayman or the 5-card suit over Puppet). In this way the 2♥ rebid is usually weak, so we can afford more substantial invitations to game.

[iandayre]

I made this observation some years ago. I believe BBO did at least comment on it. GIB does raise to 3H occasionally I have since learned, but it is definitely overly aggressive in raising to game on this auction. The actual hand is a clear-cut 3H call.