Who, if any, should bid more

[andrei]

IMP, both vul

 

2/1, 1♦ opening shows minim 4 cards

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sajt8ht8djt8cq742&n=sq752ha92daq762ck&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1d2cppdp2sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

 

With one of two finesses on, 4♠ made easily.

 

Which calls you disagree with?

[Phil]

I like South's pass. If partner floats 2C youre happy. I understand 2S since you arent certain of a 44 fit. North didnt do anything terrible. So no real blame here.

 

If anything its a system problem. Playing weak NT or an unbalanced diamond south should bid more aggressively.

[ggwhiz]

South can make an immediate negative double if you play that it just promises 1 major with a place to go when partner bids the other one. Diamonds here which is hardly clear cut.

 

Or South can pass the re-opening double, probably even less clear cut.

 

I might choose door #2 at matchpoints and might choose door #1 for the imp upside if it works but only 50/50 ish. 3♦ on the moyse down a couple against our own plus is the downside or getting too high to lose 6 or 7 imps may well happen.

[mike777]

IMP, both vul

 

2/1, 1♦ opening shows minim 4 cards

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sajt8ht8djt8cq742&n=sq752ha92daq762ck&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1d2cppdp2sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

 

With one of two finesses on, 4♠ made easily.

 

Which calls you disagree with?

 

 

 

north might open 1nt if 15-17

south might bid more if you play sound opening bids, south is close to gf but at least invite

 

if you open lite and 1d no blame expect to bid the same

good example to open offshape 1nt when opening lite. 2 suited hands in this midrange can be tough when opening lite

[Kaitlyn S]

The thing that makes this hand so tough is that both sides have an undiagnosed double fit. Give North three spades and four hearts, more likely from South's point of view, and you don't want to be anywhere.

 

By the way, what would 3D by South mean? Having failed to bid 2D directly, I think it has to mean three diamonds and a high degree of game interest from the previous pass. If North guesses to bid 3S all is good but North might guess that South has hearts and just play 3D.

[wank]

off the top of my head....

 

2nt constructive with h+d

3C constructive with both majors - can't have a GF here

3d constructive with s+d

[SteveMoe]

Neg Double (South) followed by 3♠ (North)

[nekthen]

Neg Double (South) followed by 3♠ (North)

 

Does a neg dbl show 4♠ now?

 

I think neg dbl is reasonable showing 4 cards in a major and ♦ tolerance but 2♠ from North

then 3♠ from South at match points or 4♠ imps

[helene_t]

I don't think there is any blame to share here.

 

Paying Kleinman's methods in which the reopening double shows extras, or playing weak NT, would help.

 

Kaitlyn's suggestion to bid 3♦ is interesting but opener could be 4342. And on this hand I am not convinced that North would move unless 3♦ specifically promises spades, which I suppose it doesn't. You could probably play 3♦ as showing this hand while 3♦ shows a similar hand with the majors reversed ....

[GrahamJson]

This looks to me like a hand where you just have to accept a poor score and move on. No partnership or system will reach the optimum contract every hand. In this case both players have made reasonable bids so there is no real blame. Of course it may be possible to have advanced agreements that would help in this particular situation, as has been suggested, but they often lead to problems elsewhere.

[Cyberyeti]

Agree no blame, bad 15 with the stiff king opposite flat 8, not going to make game often

[Joe_Old]

I like South's pass because I expect slightly more value for a 2 level negative double. I would then respond 3♠, showing 8-9 HCP and implying some ♦ value. If we play a 4-3 fit, then I expect partner to be short in ♣, so at least I'm not getting tapped in the wrong hand. This also assumes that partner won't reopen on absolute garbage. I am partly swayed by the need to reach the vulnerable game at IMPs.

[Phil]

I don't think there is any blame to share here.

 

Paying Kleinman's methods in which the reopening double shows extras, or playing weak NT, would help.

 

Kaitlyn's suggestion to bid 3♦ is interesting but opener could be 4342. And on this hand I am not convinced that North would move unless 3♦ specifically promises spades, which I suppose it doesn't. You could probably play 3♦ as showing this hand while 3♦ shows a similar hand with the majors reversed ....

 

Kleinman really suggests a reopening double shows extras?

[msjennifer]

In my opinion the reopening double by North does not show extras .iIt also does not promise four cards in both majors. 2S might be based on even four small cards.We realise the possibility of a game when we see both hands which is not possible on the table.South can not make a negative dbl with only Six ( forget the CQ) HCP and only a small doubleton in hearts.Just forget the deal unless we can devise a new method (??!!)applicable for one such deal and useless for Innumerable others.

[rmnka447]

I don't see any real blame here either. Tough hand to bid.

 

I agree with the auction through 2 ♠. Responder doesn't have quite enough for a 2 level negative double. 2 ♠ in the second round seems right.

 

If there is any blame at all, it needs to be with opener. Opener might push with a 15 support value for a thin vulnerable game at IMPs by raising to 3 ♠. Even though I'm fairly aggressive at IMPs, I'm not sure I'd find that bid with this hand at the table.

[iandayre]

I blame South. Negative double the first time possible. Having not done so, must show some life (3S)

 

Opening 1NT isn't bad, but even if S invites, how can N accept?

[miamijd]

Sometimes you just can't find a 23 HCP game with both hands balanced (and the Kc in opener's hand looks like garbage after the overcall), especially when the opponents bid 2C over a 1D opener (the most obstructive overcall in bridge, I think).

 

No blame. Both N and S bid fine. A negative double isn't good at all with the South hand, because you have no escape if partner bids 2H. 3D? Really? And what's even worse, some of the time West will find a raise to 3C and partner, with 0-1 clubs, will bid 3H on a minimum opener. Now what?

 

North's X doesn't show extras, so it's hard to fault South for doing anything but bidding 2S, especially since the Qc is likely worthless.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[jogs]

♦ AQ762

 

♦ JT8

 

The diamond suit fits nicely. Neither of the North/South players can know this during the auction.

 

I would have bid both hands the same way as the diagram.

 

Next hand.

[Winstonm]

This is a non-problem as it has no real solution. Next board.

[mlbridge]

Equal vul, just pass 2 clubs double and see what happens before bidding more

[helene_t]

Kleinman really suggests a reopening double shows extras?

yes. in chtonic's "human bridge errors"

[kenberg]

It seems to me that if S does not act over the 2C then there is no plausible route to game. A jump to 3S over the re-opening double would work but that's because of the fur spades and the nice five diamonds in the in hand, neither guaranteed. And still 4S, while likely, is not on ice.

 

So can S act on the first round? Not if it's me. I recently started a thread with general issues with the negative X after 1D-(2C). S has to be ready for opener to bid 2H. Some say that over 2H then S can bid 2S with this hand. If that is the agreement that I have, then I would probably double on the first round with reasonable hopes of landing on my feet if I get a 2H rebid from N. But I don't have that agreement with anyone, and I am not sure how standard it is.If I cannot X and then bid 2S over 2H, I am not up for X and then 2NT over 2H. Qxx in clubs doesn't seem like enough and probably will not be enough. If N is 2=4=5=1 with the same count and the same stiff club, the defense will begin with a club lead from W to the A, and then another club. Missing the K, Q of clubs I imagine E holds the diamond K. 2NT is not going to go well.

 

So: Unless NS are playing that S can double and convert 2H to 2S on this hand, I don't think S can risk the double. And, then, I don't expect them to get to 4S. Too bad, but that's life.

[gszes]

I have no heartache with the bidding until S bid 2s. Once n backs in with x S cannot keep showing a broke hand. Yes indeed once in a while you will get overboard with 3s but far more often it will be the right spot or even game will make. If you wanted to be conservative at MP I could understand sort of but at IMPS sheesh lets see a bit more aggression here by south or north will go nuts with overbidding to compensate.

[keen2learn]

Surely North looking at the short clubs in his hand and knowing from the bidding that partner has a few and would be concerned about club losers can bid three spades which is encouraging and has to show a club shortage otherwise why bid.

[maartenxq]

This looks to me like a hand where you just have to accept a poor score and move on. No partnership or system will reach the optimum contract every hand. In this case both players have made reasonable bids so there is no real blame. Of course it may be possible to have advanced agreements that would help in this particular situation, as has been suggested, but they often lead to problems elsewhere.

Agree. Another option would be of course to pass the dbl, opps are at least vulnerable. I know several opps in bbo tnrmts against which I would do this a tempo.