Defense against strong two club opening

[Lovera]

About this argoument i have not found much. Although probably has to be much convenient to interefer with the aim to prevent informations in partnership. Infact, having a suit with 7/8 cards in a range of about 7/8 - 12/13 points and a top honor (or two) can be bid it at third level whilest with a suit more supported (three honors/+) the bidding can be taken at fourth level. How do you think about it ?

[SteveMoe]

I've found with proper vulnerability defenders don't interfere enough. Don't underestimate the pressure eliminating the 4-level has on the opponents. Even a 5-card suit can be enough at the 2-level (lead director). Often a bid helps guide the defense - more than just getting in the way off their constructive bidding.

 

CRaSh is GOOD!

[Lovera]

I've found with proper vulnerability defenders don't interfere enough. Don't underestimate the pressure eliminating the 4-level has on the opponents. Even a 5-card suit can be enough at the 2-level (lead director). Often a bid helps guide the defense - more than just getting in the way off their constructive bidding.

 

CRaSh is GOOD!

I think that you agree. Yes, favoureble vulnerability helps surely and can allow to bid easier (and more) expecially by first opp (2♣ - ?(=first opp) ..-..) and partner can value how to continue if supporting (=bid level/n.r of supp. cards). Balanced or half-balanced hands with few points seem not be indicated to interfer while unbalanced are right for bidding. Actually we are talking only of these one to open dialogue.

[Stefan_O]

having a suit with 7/8 cards in a range of about 7/8 - 12/13 points and a top honor (or two) can be bid it at third level whilest with a suit more supported (three honors/+) the bidding can be taken at fourth level.

 

Isnt that pretty much how players already bid?

 

Only... when opps open strong 2C, I always seem to hold a hand like:

xxx xxx xxx xxxx

or similar :)

[Lovera]

Isnt that pretty much how players already bid?

 

Only... when opps open strong 2C, I always seem to hold a hand like:

xxx xxx xxx xxxx

or similar :)

Yes, certainly that can have it and in this case partner will bid consequently (but you considered before this situation reversed).

[Lovera]

As told the aim is oriented in three ways: 1) to disturbe communications (i.e. 2♣ is generic or "any shape"); 2) to have possibly a sacrifice more economic (when are doubled); 3) at worst to try at make playing them to game level when there is a slam.

[Zelandakh]

Most just play their Strong 1♣ defence a level higher. Some popular options are Mathe (X majors, 2NT minors); Truscott (2♦♥♠/3♣ show the bid suit plus the next higher; X ♣+♥; 2NT ♦+♠); Crash/CRO (X = ♣+♠ or ♦+♥; 2♦ = ♣+♦ or ♥+♠; 2NT = ♣+♥ or ♦+♠); and Modified Crash (X = ♥; 2♦ = ♠; 2♥= ♣+♠ or ♦+♥; 2♠ = ♣+♦ or ♥+♠; 2NT = ♣+♥ or ♦+♠). Some less popular options are Suction, Psycho Suction and canapé overcalls.

 

FWiiW I agree with Steve's first sentence wholeheartedly and have had a lot of success against club level opps with light (probably unsound) overcalls of their strong artificial openings.

[Lovera]

Most just play their Strong 1♣ defence a level higher. Some popular options are Mathe (X majors, 2NT minors); Truscott (2♦♥♠/3♣ show the bid suit plus the next higher; X ♣+♥; 2NT ♦+♠); Crash/CRO (X = ♣+♠ or ♦+♥; 2♦ = ♣+♦ or ♥+♠; 2NT = ♣+♥ or ♦+♠); and Modified Crash (X = ♥; 2♦ = ♠; 2♥= ♣+♠ or ♦+♥; 2♠ = ♣+♦ or ♥+♠; 2NT = ♣+♥ or ♦+♠). Some less popular options are Suction, Psycho Suction and canapé overcalls.

 

FWiiW I agree with Steve's first sentence wholeheartedly and have had a lot of success against club level opps with light (probably unsound) overcalls of their strong artificial openings.

Infact at a certain point is a matter to choise, i think necessarly, a convention (like these one) and i for better to define, has become in this way. There are ultheriors declarative situations to consider subsequently.

[Zelandakh]

Infact at a certain point is a matter to choise, i think necessarly, a convention (like these one) and i for better to define, has become in this way. There are ultheriors declarative situations to consider subsequently.

Could you perhaps re-write this (in real English)? I would probably have more idea what was meant if you had posted the Italian and I plugged that into Google Translate!

[Lovera]

Two hands of this type :1) West ♠ KJ109 ♥ KQJ98742 ♦ - ♣ 5 North ♠ A875432 ♥ - ♦ AKQJ10 ♣ A East ♠ Q ♥ 10653 ♦ 76 ♣ 876432 South ♠ 6 ♥ A ♦ 985432 ♣ KQJ109 (7 ♦ for N-S, 7♥ by W then 7NT by S). 2) West ♠ 532 ♥ AKQ109532 ♦ - ♣ 95 North ♠ 94♥ 6 ♦ Q82 ♣ AJ108743 East ♠ - ♥ J874 ♦ J10976543 ♣ 6 South ♠ AKQJ10876 ♥ - ♦ AK ♣ KQ2 Bidding:S 2♣ W 4♥ N 5♣ E(Ilyoucha Babovitch)6♣, 6♠ p p 7♥, X all pass.

[Zelandakh]

I don't think coming in on the solid 8 card suits is much of a problem. Do we need to discuss system for this?

[ahydra]

I've found with proper vulnerability defenders don't interfere enough. Don't underestimate the pressure eliminating the 4-level has on the opponents. Even a 5-card suit can be enough at the 2-level (lead director). Often a bid helps guide the defense - more than just getting in the way off their constructive bidding.

 

Absolutely. There was a hand recently where I overcalled opps' strong 2C with 2H on a pretty flimsy 5-5 reds, partner bounced to 3H on just a doubleton, and it won us 12 IMPs as they got into the wrong game. We could have gone for 800, of course, but they don't always suspect that if you're green and they're red.

 

ahydra

[Lovera]

I don't think coming in on the solid 8 card suits is much of a problem. Do we need to discuss system for this?

It may be but this makes the concept better.

[Lovera]

Three hands for overcall at third level :1) West ♠ J6 ♥ AQ98765 ♦ Q10 ♣ AJ North ♠ Q10984 ♥ J1042 ♦ 86 ♣ 93 East ♠ 732 ♥ 3 ♦ J753 ♣ 106542 South ♠ AK5 ♥ K ♦ AK942 ♣ KQ87 (this hand was played by me w/o interf. for 4♠+1); 2) West ♠ 43 ♥ 976 ♦ KJ98742 ♣ 2 North ♠ J7652 ♥ QJ103 ♦ Q3 ♣ 54 East ♠ 98 ♥ K85 ♦ 106 ♣ QJ10987 South ♠ AKQ10 ♥ A42 ♦ A5 ♣ AK63 Bidding (at table): S 2♣ W 3♦ N p E p, 4♦ p 4♠ p, 6♠; 3) West ♠ QJ109876 ♥ - ♦ QJ9 ♣ QJ8 North ♠ K532 ♥ Q87 ♦ 843 ♣ 964 East ♠ - ♥ 65432 ♦ 7652 ♣ 7532 South ♠ A4 ♥ AKJ109 ♦ AK10 ♣ AK10.

[1eyedjack]

Strength of field is an important consideration in informing your strategy of defence against a strong 2C opener.

 

Contrast a strong 1C opener, where in any field, weak or strong, the 1C opener has a big advantage if given a free run, which dictates a policy of aggressive interference.

 

With a strong 2C opener, however, there are two additional factors to consider:

1) Most non-expert players open 2C on inappropriate hands, and

2) Most non-expert pairs have at best a mediocre structure of continuations in an uncontested auction.

 

Both of these factors tend to suppress the marginal utility of aggressive intervention against anything but the best and most regular pairings.

 

Still, as this is posted in the expert forum, perhaps an expert opposition is to be assumed.

[johnu]

Three hands for overcall at third level :1) West ♠ J6 ♥ AQ98765 ♦ Q10 ♣ AJ North ♠ Q10984 ♥ J1042 ♦ 86 ♣ 93 East ♠ 732 ♥ 3 ♦ J753 ♣ 106542 South ♠ AK5 ♥ K ♦ AK942 ♣ KQ87 (this hand was played by me w/o interf. for 4♠+1); 2) West ♠ 43 ♥ 976 ♦ KJ98742 ♣ 2 North ♠ J7652 ♥ QJ103 ♦ Q3 ♣ 54 East ♠ 98 ♥ K85 ♦ 106 ♣ QJ10987 South ♠ AKQ10 ♥ A42 ♦ A5 ♣ AK63 Bidding (at table): S 2♣ W 3♦ N p E p, 4♦ p 4♠ p, 6♠; 3) West ♠ QJ109876 ♥ - ♦ QJ9 ♣ QJ8 North ♠ K532 ♥ Q87 ♦ 843 ♣ 964 East ♠ - ♥ 65432 ♦ 7652 ♣ 7532 South ♠ A4 ♥ AKJ109 ♦ AK10 ♣ AK10.

 

Thankyouforyourpostbutitcouldusealittleformatting.

[Lovera]

Thankyouforyourpostbutitcouldusealittleformatting.

Yes, but i don 't know how to do (i am not " expert" about informatic use- sorry)

[Lovera]

Other two hands, before continuing. The first by French players Guiton-Covo (in S-N): West ♠ Q105 ♥ 86 ♦ 9753 ♦ KQJ3 in North Covo ♠ 87632 ♥ J7542 ♦ 82 ♣ A East ♠ - ♥ K109 ♦ 1064 ♣ 10976542 in South Guiton ♠ AKJ94 ♥ AQ3 ♦ AKQJ ♣ 8. The bidding (S-N, opp silent): 2♣-3♣(=Ace), 3♠-5♠(=good support), 6♥(=query complement of honors and not longness)-6♠(=negative). Here E-W have a good defence in club suit and if bidding goes ..2♦ by N, 3♣ by E, 3♠ for S, 5♣ (and more) by W,.. The second hand with in W Desrousseaux, in E Poubeau, in N/S Calix and Carcy. The bidding: W 2♣, N p, E 2♦, S 2♥ W 2♠ N 3♥ E 4♠ S 5♣ W p N 6♣ E double (opening lead ♦ A for 6♣X+1). If bidding goes 2♣ by W, 2NT (Unusual No Trump) by N the resulting it'd be the same (In closed room Stoppa in S and Roudinesco in N) The bidding:S p W 2♣ N p E 2♦ S 4♥ W 4♠ N 5♥ E 5♠ S 6♥ W double all pass (the same Ace of diamond for 6♥). (From "Bridge Suspense avec Pierre Jais" by Pierre Jais).W:♠ AQJ1073 ♥ 8 ♦ AKQJ ♣ K6 N:♠ 84 ♥ Q5 ♦ 108742 ♣ AQ92 E:♠ K962 ♥ J73 ♦ 9653 ♣ 83 S:♠5 ♥ AK109642 ♦ - ♣ J10754

[Zelandakh]

Yes, but i don 't know how to do (i am not " expert" about informatic use- sorry)

When you press reply to this message, take a look above the text area and you will see some rows of symbols. One of these begins with text types (bold, italic, underscore, etc). At the extreme right of this row is a black spade (picche) symbol between thin red bars. When you click on this it will open the Hand Editor. Enter your hands here and the formatting will be taken care of.

[Lovera]

When you press reply to this message, take a look above the text area and you will see some rows of symbols. One of these begins with text types (bold, italic, underscore, etc). At the extreme right of this row is a black spade (picche) symbol between thin red bars. When you click on this it will open the Hand Editor. Enter your hands here and the formatting will be taken care of.

Thanks (i don't know it - select ..), i'll try to transcrive.

[saneadvice]

After 2C i prefer x with a single suiter otherwise bid highest shortage or 2nt for minors. So bid 2d shows majors. 2h shows s and minor. 2s shows h and minor. Obviously 3c is 4441 . The object of bidding a shortage is that you are bidding opponent's suits so you make it difficult for them to find the contract

[Lovera]

After 2C i prefer x with a single suiter otherwise bid highest shortage or 2nt for minors. So bid 2d shows majors. 2h shows s and minor. 2s shows h and minor. Obviously 3c is 4441 . The object of bidding a shortage is that you are bidding opponent's suits so you make it difficult for them to find the contract

As i already told this one requires an (or, also, differently - as in your case) agreement with partner. I am going to explain my choising about the second level bidding.

[Zelandakh]

As i already told this one requires an (or, also, differently - as in your case) agreement with partner. I am going to explain my choising about the second level bidding.

This is the Expert forum. If you are not looking for ideas on a defensive scheme, just what are you hoping to achieve from this thread?

[Lovera]

It is remaining the second level bidding reserved for 5-4, 5-5, 6-4 (or more) shape (with almost points in the two suits). At this aim i have choose the Astro convention (with any necessary definition). You can see here how it works: http://www.bridgeguys.com/Conventions/astro_defense_method.html

[Lovera]

The re-definitions are about : club bid and relatif meaning ( and also for diamond suit ) plus any ultherior integration. So, after 2♣ the first opp bids : X having the suit of Club (and not an unspecified minor) and Heart, 2♦ meaning Diamond and Spade, 2♥ with Heart and Spade, 2♠ (ambigous) with Spade and Club or Heart and Diamond, 2NT with Club and Diamond.