Signalling length with Qx

[VixTD]

I blew the defence on a hand in a county match at the weekend. Teams-of-eight, cross-IMPs to VPs.

[hv=pc=n&s=st9875432hq6d4ct3&e=skqht7542da76cq54&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1d1n2d4s5ddppp]266|200[/hv]

Opponents (EW) are playing Acol (but have a curious aversion to doubling 1NT overcalls).

 

We (NS) have an agreement that partner signals attitude on the lead of the ace, count on the lead of the king, at the five level or higher (standard signals, high-low to encourage or show an even number).

 

I led ♥K to see how many tricks we could cash. I know that playing the queen under the ace or king normally shows the jack, unless it's a singleton (or the jack's in dummy), but does this apply in a situation where we're probably just trying to cash our tricks? I won't give the full deal, as I just want to know in principle if you think South should play the queen here.

[MrAce]

Should play small

[johnu]

South should drop the 6 on the floor and announce "playing high" while bending down to pick up the card.

[SteveMoe]

Play small. Partner will play a suit preference card (assuming length) to your Q next. If partner does play the Ace, two things are true: They'll know you held a doubleton, and 2) You need to have a conversation about what attitude signals mean.

[Kaitlyn S]

Play small. Partner will play a suit preference card (assuming length) to your Q next. If partner does play the Ace, two things are true: They'll know you held a doubleton, and 2) You need to have a conversation about what attitude signals mean.

Or a discussion about honor leads, The OP said the king asked for count.

[Zelandakh]

I think, given your agreements, the queen is the correct card and should not promise the knave. The discussion should probably focus on whether the agreement is optimal or could be tweaked.

 

As far as the auction goes, I am inclined to ask East whether they meant 2♦ as inverted or as a transfer (after 1NT). Either way an alert seems to be in order. I guess East is just a beginner though and has basically no idea what they are doing.

[fourdad]

play small and then change your defensive agreements so you avoid even having to ask the question

[WellSpyder]

Good question. I would play small, and then wonder whether I should have played Q.....

[Joe_Old]

Play small. Any agreement that requires partner to throw away a trick to signal is a bad agreement. Plus, signaling is always suggestive, never commanding, and always constrained by the cards you were dealt. Sometimes you just can't tell partner what you want to tell him.

[Zelandakh]

Is it costing a trick? We know that Declarer has a singleton or void in spades. If that is a small singleton then they are going down regardless. If it is a singleton ace though, there is a real risk of a heart trick going away if we do not cash it immediately so partner needs to know that we do not have 3 hearts. The problem comes when Declarer has a spade void and the ♥J. Now we are setting up Dummy's ♥T and if Declarer has a small singleton spade, partner is going to need to cash their ♠A immediately too. Unfortunately I cannot see a way of imparting both pieces of information in time so we have to decide which trick is more likely to go away. I think it is easier for partner to play us for an 8 card suit (rather than 9) than to pick us for ♥Q6 over ♥Qx6 on the false signal. Either way might cost a trick on the wrong layout but at least this way partner has a chance of doing something brilliant/lucky even when it is lying wrong for our choice.

[Winstonm]

Play upside down count and attitude.

[nekthen]

Play the Q. Clearly you need to discuss this. Upside down count does solve the issue.

Clearly you can take 3 tricks if West hast Jxx. If West has Jx you only have 2 tricks. I am guessing you decided that p had the J and lead low at trick 2.

How could that possibly gain?

If S has QJ you have blown the ruff. If he has QJx, you can play A and another and have a word about always giving count. I assume you lead from AKxx. With more you should overcall 1H and with less you should lead the A for attitude. On the lead of the Ace S has a bigger problem as he must play the 6 denying the Q, because the Q really would show the J. Again reverse attitude solves most of the problem, because the Q would be stiff or showing the J.

[VixTD]

Play the Q. Clearly you need to discuss this. Upside down count does solve the issue.

Clearly you can take 3 tricks if West hast Jxx. If West has Jx you only have 2 tricks. I am guessing you decided that p had the J and lead low at trick 2.

How could that possibly gain?

If S has QJ you have blown the ruff. If he has QJx, you can play A and another and have a word about always giving count. I assume you lead from AKxx. With more you should overcall 1H and with less you should lead the A for attitude. On the lead of the Ace S has a bigger problem as he must play the 6 denying the Q, because the Q really would show the J. Again reverse attitude solves most of the problem, because the Q would be stiff or showing the J.

I know that upside-down signals would solve the problem, but switching is not an option. My partner is a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist and won't change.

 

I didn't continue with a low heart, I switched to a spade. Declarer had the singleton ace and managed to discard his heart loser.

[johnu]

Play upside down count and attitude.

 

when you have the spot cards that fit the method. Otherwise play standard signals when you don't have the spot cards that fit the method.

[Winstonm]

when you have the spot cards that fit the method. Otherwise play standard signals when you don't have the spot cards that fit the method.

 

OR....play the one that makes the most sense....low cards from strength and higher cards from weakness.

[Zelandakh]

Clearly you can take 3 tricks if West hast Jxx.

Declarer does not have Jxx. That would leave partner with AKx and that is an ace lead. Similarly partner does not have AKxxx as that would not be a 1NT overcall, so it is clear that partner has precisely AKxx. That seemed so obvious to me that it was not even worth putting into the previous post!

[johnu]

OR....play the one that makes the most sense....low cards from strength and higher cards from weakness.

 

If you had ♥Q9 (instead of ♥Q6), what card do you play to show strength playing upside down signals?

 

And don't bother preaching to me. I have played upside down signals longer than I can remember based on the sound theory, throw (sure) losers, keep (potential) winners.

[Winstonm]

If you had ♥Q9 (instead of ♥Q6), what card do you play to show strength playing upside down signals?

 

And don't bother preaching to me. I have played upside down signals longer than I can remember based on the sound theory, throw (sure) losers, keep (potential) winners.

 

I would play the 9 - what would you play?

[johnu]

I would play the 9 - what would you play?

 

Playing upside down signals, I drop the ♥9 on the floor and and announce "playing low" while bending down to pick up the card.

[Winstonm]

Playing upside down signals, I drop the ♥9 on the floor and and announce "playing low" while bending down to pick up the card.

 

Of course, looking at 5 hearts in dummy and the hearts in his own hand, there is a fairly good chance partner can work out the meaning of the 9 on his own.

[aawk]

The first rule of giving signals is that it cannot cost a trick.

 

With high cards you can make tricks so why waste them.

 

If you play high being encore or even it's more likely you have to give up a trick if you want your signals be honest.

[johnu]

Of course, looking at 5 hearts in dummy and the hearts in his own hand, there is a fairly good chance partner can work out the meaning of the 9 on his own.

 

OK, apparently it doesn't make any difference what signalling methods you use in this layout.

[nekthen]

I know that upside-down signals would solve the problem, but switching is not an option. My partner is a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist and won't change.

 

I didn't continue with a low heart, I switched to a spade. Declarer had the singleton ace and managed to discard his heart loser.

 

So did partner play the Q or the 6?

 

If it was the Q you would have attempted to cash the Ace presumably.

 

If he played the 6, I think he is 100% to blame. When asked to give count you must do it as clearly as possible with no regrets about "throwing a winner". If it loses a trick, you can then win the post mortem. Playing the 6 shows a lack of trust in partner.

[GrahamJson]

Given that N is missing HQ I'm struggling to come up with a hand in which he would think that count is more important than attitude. The bidding does not suggest that this is a rapid cash out situation.

 

Incidentally I have two regular partners. With one I play normal signals with the other reverse. Maybe reverse has technical advantages, however I certainly find them more difficult to play. But perhaps that is because I have grown used to the normal method.

[nekthen]

Given that N is missing HQ I'm struggling to come up with a hand in which he would think that count is more important than attitude. The bidding does not suggest that this is a rapid cash out situation.

 

My guess is

 

North

♠Jx

♥AKxx

♦Kxx

♣KJxx

 

West

♠A

♥Jx

♦QJTxxxx

♣Axx