slar Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Bad slam bidding by the robots is frustrating the heck out of me. Look at these two hands. http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=st||md|1SAK742HJDT8CAKJ95,S653HQ98DKJ93C843,SQJ98HA5432D76CQ7,STHKT76DAQ542CT62|sv|B|ah|Board%207|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!S;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|3S|an|Limit%20major%20raise%20--%204+%20!S;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20!S;%2021-%20HCP;%20!CA;%2020-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4H|an|Cue%20bid%20--%201+%20!D;%204+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|5C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20!S;%2021-%20HCP;%20!CAK;%2022%20total%20points;%20forcing|mb|P|mb|6S|an|1+%20!D;%204+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|D3|pc|D6|pc|DA|pc|D8|pc|D5|pc|DT|pc|DJ|pc|D7|pc|C4|pc|C7|pc|C2|pc|C5|mc|11| Here I'm clearly looking for second round control in diamonds and the bot goes to slam without one. Sure I could just close my eyes and bid 6 but I would never do that with a human partner. In the other hand (which I can't find at the moment) I went to Blackwood. The robot bid 5♣ showing 0 or 3 key cards and 0 was still plausible on the bidding. I sign off but the robot actually had 3 and failed to correct. I've had this scenario come up before from the other direction and the bot signed off, knowing that I would raise if I had the extra key cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 [hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=st||md|1SAK742HJDT8CAKJ95,S653HQ98DKJ93C843,SQJ98HA5432D76CQ7,STHKT76DAQ542CT62|sv|B|ah|Board%207|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!S;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|3S|an|Limit%20major%20raise%20--%204+%20!S;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20!S;%2021-%20HCP;%20!CA;%2020-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4H|an|Cue%20bid%20--%201+%20!D;%204+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|5C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20!S;%2021-%20HCP;%20!CAK;%2022%20total%20points;%20forcing|mb|P|mb|6S|an|1+%20!D;%204+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|D3|pc|D6|pc|DA|pc|D8|pc|D5|pc|DT|pc|DJ|pc|D7|pc|C4|pc|C7|pc|C2|pc|C5|mc|11|]400|300[/hv] I think Gib doesn't know how to show second round control clearly in many situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 When North doesn't cue bid 4♦, you know you are off a diamond trick, a possible trump loser, maybe need something good to happen in clubs. If North doesn't have the ♦Q, you are at best 50% on a diamond lead. That being said, you are playing with GIB who is notoriously bad at interpreting cue bidding sequences. You basically have to blast or stop short of slam on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 In the other hand (which I can't find at the moment) I went to Blackwood. The robot bid 5♣ showing 0 or 3 key cards and 0 was still plausible on the bidding. I sign off but the robot actually had 3 and failed to correct. I've had this scenario come up before from the other direction and the bot signed off, knowing that I would raise if I had the extra key cards.GIB doesn't do that. You probably misinterpreted the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slar Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 GIB doesn't do that. You probably misinterpreted the situation. Then GIB should. There is no situation where you ask for key cards with a minor as trump where you can't accept a 5♥/5♠ response. Correcting to 6♦ with 3 key cards is standard RKCB. If you aren't going to play the convention completely you shouldn't play it at all. On the other hand (no pun intended), asking for second round controls isn't that hard a thing to do. I know I am being aggressive here, but second round controls come in many flavors. If partner has a singleton or KQ it is a very good slam. With the bare K it is not quite 50/50 but it is still reasonable. I don't like bidding 4NT on the second round because a 5♦ doesn't tell me what I need to know. If the expert play is to throw caution to the wind and just bid 6 then tell me and I'll drop it. From here it looks like another case where support for the convention (cue-bidding) is incomplete and should either be dropped or fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 No one denies it should be fixed, as should many things. I do not agree that it is automatically true that you "should" correct to slam with the higher amount. There is invariably a better choice than RKC if you won't know how many partner has for his response (granted GIB does not make this simple by misunderstanding cuebidding auctions so badly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 No one denies it should be fixed, as should many things. I do not agree that it is automatically true that you "should" correct to slam with the higher amount. There is invariably a better choice than RKC if you won't know how many partner has for his response (granted GIB does not make this simple by misunderstanding cuebidding auctions so badly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iandayre Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Bad slam bidding by the robots is frustrating the heck out of me. Look at these two hands. http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=st||md|1SAK742HJDT8CAKJ95,S653HQ98DKJ93C843,SQJ98HA5432D76CQ7,STHKT76DAQ542CT62|sv|B|ah|Board%207|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!S;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|3S|an|Limit%20major%20raise%20--%204+%20!S;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20!S;%2021-%20HCP;%20!CA;%2020-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|4H|an|Cue%20bid%20--%201+%20!D;%204+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|5C|an|Cue%20bid%20--%205+%20!S;%2021-%20HCP;%20!CAK;%2022%20total%20points;%20forcing|mb|P|mb|6S|an|1+%20!D;%204+%20!S;%20no%20!DA;%20!HA;%2010-12%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|D3|pc|D6|pc|DA|pc|D8|pc|D5|pc|DT|pc|DJ|pc|D7|pc|C4|pc|C7|pc|C2|pc|C5|mc|11| Here I'm clearly looking for second round control in diamonds and the bot goes to slam without one. Sure I could just close my eyes and bid 6 but I would never do that with a human partner. In the other hand (which I can't find at the moment) I went to Blackwood. The robot bid 5♣ showing 0 or 3 key cards and 0 was still plausible on the bidding. I sign off but the robot actually had 3 and failed to correct. I've had this scenario come up before from the other direction and the bot signed off, knowing that I would raise if I had the extra key cards. With most good human bidders, once cuebidding starts, you continue to show controls held. It doesn't work that way with GIB. Each additional cue bid shows additional strength. Your second cue bid of 5C showed 22 total points! With GIB you must sign off in 4S over 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slar Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 With most good human bidders, once cuebidding starts, you continue to show controls held. It doesn't work that way with GIB. Each additional cue bid shows additional strength. Your second cue bid of 5C showed 22 total points! With GIB you must sign off in 4S over 4H. Thank you for educating me on how GIB works here. I don't like it but at least I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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