1NT - (2C) - ?

[661_Pete]

Sometimes you have those days when 'everything that can go wrong, does go wrong' (Murphy's law or whatever) :(

 

After a bruising session including a disastrously mis-bid slam (entirely my fault :unsure:) which cost me and my long-suffering partner -15imps, "it couldn't get worse" could it?

 

Wrong.

 

A few hands later I had this:

[hv=pc=n&s=s9ha76dkjt952caj8&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n2c]133|200[/hv]

Partner's 1NT is 12-14. I thought long and hard before saying anytning. Clearly we wanted to be somewhere other than leave opps in 2♣, and I didn't want them to discover their major fit, if any. I wasn't sure whether 2♣ was Landy or not, and foolishly didn't bother to ask. I went straight (and unwisely) to 3NT. Alas! Spades were led and partner didn't have a guard.

 

I think, on reflection, X would have been the best call. Any suggestions?

[Tramticket]

It depends upon your methods. Do you play Lebensohl for example? Depending upon how you play Lebensohl, either a jump to 3♦ or 2NT followed by 3♦ seems about right.

[el mister]

X could be OK as values but liable to misinterpretation if you've not discussed what doubling Landy means (nor are sure if it is even Landy!) - pard might take it as E stepping out and you laying down a pure penalty. At least if W then shows the fit you are both aware of the spade problem for 3N.

 

Absent clear agreements, I think 3♦ gets the message across. Game-going hand, single suited, gives you a shot at showing stops in the majors. I wouldn't criticize 3N too harshly, either - it's obv a punt but not crazy to expect a stop from partner with a lead through your singleton. If you're playing a simple system then pard has to tolerate the occasional agricultural bid.

[1eyedjack]

They should have told you what the 2C meant. And they shouldn't have to wait for you to ask. Not that it probably takes away your problem.

[ggwhiz]

They should have told you what the 2C meant. And they shouldn't have to wait for you to ask.

 

Exactly. If the 2♣ bid doesn't mean clubs and is not alerted you are entitled to a score adjustment.

[fromageGB]

I can't see how a "values" double helps, and this is not really a penalty double, is it? What does a double mean to you?

 

The meaning of the (2♣) does not matter unless you have agreements for doubling an artificial suit or for cue bidding their suit(s) so presumably as you did not ask, you do not have those agreements.

 

A simple approach is transfers, and transfer starts with a double. This means you cannot penalty double, so if you have a hand with a long and good holding in the opposition suit you have to pass, and opener reopens with a takeout double if he has a poor doubleton (which is quite likely in these circumstances). You could then pass, of course. So on this hand you can easily start with X, a transfer to diamonds. If it gets to partner, he bids 2♦ and now with a good hand your best bet is to bid 3♣ to show stops. Let opener decide whether he wants to bid 3NT or 3♦.

 

Incidentally, this if in NT would get the spade lead coming round to opener, not through him.

[mycroft]

Quote (from memory) from Anderson's Lebensohl book: "experience has shown us that people playing Landy have clubs about half the time, so we ignore the 2♣ call and play systems on."

 

That might be better now, or better in the (more heavily 12-14) UK, but we've just decided for ease of use to play systems on over 2♣ whatever it means (along with "runouts on over X, whatever it means" - sometimes it's fourth hand that has the penalty double). Having said that, "systems on" isn't going to find us a spade stopper...

 

Agree with everyone who says that if there was an unAlerted Landy call, have the TD review it, even if you do play systems on.

[mikestar13]

Whatever shows a game force in diamonds in your methods is right--if partner has no spade stopper, 5♦ likely has a play.

[1eyedjack]

Whatever shows a game force in diamonds in your methods is right--if partner has no spade stopper, 5♦ likely has a play.

Partner needs to know that Spades is the danger suit in order for him to focus on the possession or absence of a spade stopper. Simply showing a GF Diamond hand does not get that across. The wide open suit could be any one of 3. OK, reduce that to 2 if 2C shows the majors.

 

I have tended to take the view that if you have a shortage, in a hand that has no interest in a major suit, then getting the shortage across is the first priority, even if as a price to be paid for that you have (initially) to conceal marked preference for a particular minor. When partner then expresses disinterest in 3N, you have another round of bidding.