ATB extravaganva

[Jinksy]

[hv=pc=n&w=skq73h3d62cakt954&e=s82ha95dk753cq873&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=p2d(weak%202M%20or%20%5B4441%5D%2017-24)3c4h(See%20post)pp4sp6cppdppp]266|200[/hv]

 

IMP teams. When E asked if N's bid was pass/correct or to play, South said it was to play.

 

E understood this as meaning 'own heart suit' - W understood it as meaning 'either own heart suit or possibly just taking a view on what S's suit is, though S has to pass in case it's the first'. So when W rebid 4♠ meaning it as nat, E read it as a mild slam try, cueing S's suit.

 

What went wrong here?

[mr1303]

Whatever was going on, 4S was a shocking overbid.

 

Did he forget that he had already overcalled 3C vulnerable opposite a passed partner?

[MrAce]

E should have bid 5♣ previously. This is the most clear action of all for me.

I would take 4♠ as a cue, which is not very clear though. The question asked and the answer given simply says that North has his own hearts. This leads us to believe South has spades. But in an unlikely scenario both N and S can have hearts.

As East, even if I took 4♠ as a cue(which is reasonable) bidding 6♣ now and passing previously shows my actions are extremely inconsistent.

As West, even if I thought 4♠ is natural, I would not have bid it.

[alok c]

Bidding implies South is 4-4-4-1 with 17-24 pts,West's 4S bid was pretty bad having so many losers in his own hand opposite a passed hand,what he was trying to achieve is not understood.Equally bad was East's bidding,either he should bid 5♣ to sacrifice in previous round or bid 5♣ now to minimise the damage.

[rmnka447]

As East, can you assure there aren't 2 quick losers even if 4 ♠ is a cue? That would require West to hold either both pointed suit As or ♠ AK. There's just no way to know if West has either. Even if West does have one of those holdings, it's still possible that 2 tricks could be lost. So, IMO at IMPs especially, bidding 6 is a big overbid. It's better to "stay fixed" and bid your most likely positive of 5 ♣.

[phil_20686]

As East, can you assure there aren't 2 quick losers even if 4 ♠ is a cue? That would require West to hold either both pointed suit As or ♠ AK. There's just no way to know if West has either. Even if West does have one of those holdings, it's still possible that 2 tricks could be lost. So, IMO at IMPs especially, bidding 6 is a big overbid. It's better to "stay fixed" and bid your most likely positive of 5 ♣.

 

Well,

as I see it, east has passed throughout, his man has made a slam try opposite a passed hand, and I have a four trumps to the Q, and a keycard, and another control. What more could partner want from a passed hand?

[phil_20686]

East's failure to take action over 4H is really pretty bizarre. Wests 4S bid is way too much. Its just mad from east though to have been happy to defend 4H undoubled and then suddenly to be piling into slam....

[cherdano]

Guys what are you talking about?

4S as cue?? After West couldn't bid more than 3C first round??

4S is natural no matter what the opponents tell me. At least 6-5 of course.

[ggwhiz]

East's failure to take action over 4H is really pretty bizarre. Wests 4S bid is way too much.

 

Not for the last time I'll quote Billy Eisenberg to Eddie Kantar:

 

That's ok, we deserve each other

[MrAce]

Guys what are you talking about?

4S as cue?? After West couldn't bid more than 3C first round??

4S is natural no matter what the opponents tell me. At least 6-5 of course.

 

 

He can not have 5-6 ♠ to start with. That hand would start 4♣ over 2♦ http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif (or whatever their 2 suited M+m bid over 2♦ , according to my little search among some decent pairs, I found they play 4m=m+♥, 3♠=sp+m

 

I imagined W could have something like

 

AQx

Void

Qx

AKxxxxxx

 

But I have to admit as you said, the alert given more than my logic made me lean to it. 4 ♠ being natural is probably the best with 4 card spades and a hand that is willing to play 5 ♣ by himself if can not find a decent spade fit. Usually 7-4. After all, if there is something fishy about the alert, pd can easily hold 4-5 card ♠. I do not think any W can afford DBL to show 4 card spades with 7-4 hand to avoid 5 ♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Doesn't anybody pass these hands any more with the intention of 2♦-P-2♥-P-P-3♣ 4♠/5+♣

 

Might not work if opener's partner preempts, but can keep you alive in other circumstances.

[phil_20686]

Guys what are you talking about?

4S as cue?? After West couldn't bid more than 3C first round??

4S is natural no matter what the opponents tell me. At least 6-5 of course.

 

Yes.

This would certainly be natural for me (on the grounds that clearly we haven't discussed and it could well be natural in principle.) Expecting 6-4 or 7-4 and unwilling to sit a double. KQJx - xx AKQJxxx or something.

 

But if for whatever reason you think it isn't, east has a clear 6c bid.