2 clubs GF art or weak 2D

[Cyberyeti]

This is a problem I was given by a friend as I don't play this:

 

Auction proceeds

 

2♣(standard acol 2♣ or 6-10 6♦)-2♦(any hand that would pass a weak 2♦)

2♥(GF hearts)-

 

Since responder can have say 0-14 here, how do you distinguish the various heart raises.

[phoenix214]

Similar to what you would if you are playing a 2!C(Strong) - 2!D(Waiting), likely using fast arrival, combined with Serious/Frivolous 3N + splinters on lvl 4.

[newroad]

Hi Cyberyeti,

 

I basically agree with Phoenix214 (at least, if you come from a school where one usually bids 2♦ and gets out of the way of a strong 2♣ opener).

 

You don't really have a problem with heart raises per se. The place you might have an indirect problem is when you have a side suit with heart support - you'll somehow want to distinguish the strength of the hand and/or the quality of the side suit as well as show support - and the fact it could be a full-blooded "positive" (in normal 2♣ response terms) will complicate this.

 

I haven't played this method either (but coincidentally, have just started playing something which may, on occasion, exhibit similar issues). There are many ways your friend could try and handle the problem and I haven't thought any (let alone all) of them through. I think the main point is not to fight the chosen system. This means, agreeing what side suit bids then support mean - and dealing with the problem cases (e.g. if you decide new suit then support is strong, you may need to suppress the side suit with a weaker hand and just support directly).

 

Not sure that was a great help, but I hope at least a little.

 

Regards, Newroad

[helene_t]

If you like to play the 2♥=bust response to 2♣, you can also play it here. If responder is bust and opener has the weak variant while opps don't interfere (unlikely!), you are normally ok playing 2♥ undoubled. Maybe not at unfavourable but I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

The disadvantage is, of course, that you miss the natural (forcing?) 2♥ response.

[Cyberyeti]

If you like to play the 2♥=bust response to 2♣, you can also play it here. If responder is bust and opener has the weak variant while opps don't interfere (unlikely!), you are normally ok playing 2♥ undoubled. Maybe not at unfavourable but I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

The disadvantage is, of course, that you miss the natural (forcing?) 2♥ response.

 

And that you have to play 3♦X rather than 2♦X.

 

On the hand in question, partner had Jxxxx, 10xxx, xxxx, void

 

What does he bid over 2♣-2♦-2♥ ? he has a potentially very powerful hand, is it too good for 4♥ ? and if he bids something more constructive like 4♣ or 3♥ is partner going to take him for way too much ?

[Kungsgeten]

The disadvantage is, of course, that you miss the natural (forcing?) 2♥ response.

 

Over this kind of 2♣ opening, I believe that 2♥ should be artificial and forcing, and the 2NT response is forcing with hearts. This is also a nice method over a natural weak 2♦.

 

Over 2♣-2♦; 2♥ you could play 3♣ as a "second negative", while other rebids are somewhat positive. So, if raising hearts:

 

3♣ = 0-4, no ace

3♥ = 8+

4♥ = 5-7

 

If not playing the second negative, perhaps the 3♥ raise could be either very weak or "strong":

 

3♥ = 0-4 or 8+. Will bid 4♥ next time if 0-4.

4♥ = 5-7

[Zelandakh]

I would imagine the traditional:-

 

very weak: 2NT followed by bidding hearts

weak (no key card): 4♥

SI: 3♥ or splinter

 

...would be a reasonable starting point.