Windows client retirement feedback thread

[husky23]

I very much regret it that the Windows version will be removed.

Would it be possible to add some features that lack in the browser version?

Like:

- changing the color of the chat in the chatbox when the person disconnects;

- indicating the declarer not by North, East, South or West, but by the nick;

- see who is kibbing simply by moving the mouse over the kibbers box;

- leaving the possibility to look into programmed tournaments for at at least 10 hours ahead?

 

And there are some other things I probably forget right now.

 

The new version is, for me, less user friendly, but probably necessary for you to be able to add more advertisement?

On my Mac I created a Windows platform exclusively to be able to continue using the BBO download version...

A sad, sad story that it will be over now....

[choccy]

One of the features I have greatly appreciated with the Windows version is that it can log deals when I'm playing, kibbing or watching vugraph. Since the end of Noevember this feature, alas, no longer works for me. Has this essential feature been discontinued, or is it just my installation?

 

Generally I much prefer the Windows version. I find it loads faster, it's card movement and clarity is greatly to be preferred and it's sounds superior. Also, when kibbing or watching vugraph I can just click once on GiB, if I wish, to see how it views the hands.

[barmar]

One of the features I have greatly appreciated with the Windows version is that it can log deals when I'm playing, kibbing or watching vugraph. Since the end of Noevember this feature, alas, no longer works for me. Has this essential feature been discontinued, or is it just my installation?

Nothing about the Windows version has changed.

 

Did you upgrade your OS recently? Maybe the permissions on the folder where the deals are logged were changed.

Generally I much prefer the Windows version. I find it loads faster, it's card movement and clarity is greatly to be preferred and it's sounds superior. Also, when kibbing or watching vugraph I can just click once on GiB, if I wish, to see how it views the hands.

If you've purchased robots, or played in any pay tourneys recently, you get the GIB button when kibbing.

[onoway]

I have a question..if BBO is revamping everything anyway so as to get away from using Flash, what is the point of forcing everyone to move to the flash version and then again later to the new version?

[Oceanss]

In browser, when we are in any room, specifically some club, private or public, at top left we can choose to see 1) Open tables, 2) Full tables or 3) tables with friends. Altho, all very useful, it would be great if we could also see ALL tables currently open. That's is because when we run specific event in the club, being it marathon or just team matches start-up for example, we really need to have a full picture of which tables are full, where are empty spaces, etc.

 

Some time ago there was suggestion to include a button of par-score near GIB under the results. That would be very helpfull to non-expert players.

 

Thanks!

[barmar]

I have a question..if BBO is revamping everything anyway so as to get away from using Flash, what is the point of forcing everyone to move to the flash version and then again later to the new version?

Whenever we make changes to the server, we have to make sure they're compatible with all the clients. Right now we have the Windows client, the Flash client, and the mobile client. As we move to HTML5, that will be 4 clients. If we can phase out the Windows client, that's less we have to deal with as we work on the next version.

 

We also have different server infrastructure for each type of client.

[onoway]

One down. Someone who has been directing tourneys weekly for us pretty much since the club started, ( about 8 years now) as well as several weekly for another group, decided after trying to run them on the web version a few times that the day she loses the download version is the day she will no longer run any tourneys. Not expecting that to make any difference just letting you know.

[scarletv]

That might be a problem with quite a number of directors not only in IAC. I switched to the browser for directing long ago and found it much more comfortable as the download version. But we should be aware that directors will need some time to learn and might need assistance or coaching too.

 

Maybe we should create a kind of FAQ for hosts and directors where we can concentrate any information that is available about directing (video, slideshow, questions whatever). The earlier the TDs switch to the browser the better.

[onoway]

Part of the problem is the inability to limit subs to members. The web version doesn't differentiate. This usually gives you many more subs, admittedly, but no way to know if they are members, unlike the download which only offers subs who specifically offered to sub THAT tourney. Although on web version there are more subs, many of them don't accept for whatever reason, and that can lead to long delays in finding a player. It is handy on occasion to have the option, though, admittedly.

 

Of course, on web there is also no way to communicate with the membership to ask in the first place. Many people prefer to offer when they know there is a need rather than register and hang around on the off chance they will get to play. If I am not mistaken, the sub issue was the straw that led to her decision when she had invited various random subs with no success, had to log off and come back on download to ask for subs from the membership. Then she quickly got offers, but the whole effort to find subs for sitouts used up nearly 10 minutes. Way too stressful.

 

This all random subs also tends to give you a lot more runners, unpleasant people etc. who then create a need for more subs. Incidentally, the tourney completion rate seems a very good idea but in fact is possibly of limited usefulness, I ran an open tourney set at 90 % a few weeks ago and had to find so many subs ( I'd guess well over a dozen and the tourney wasn't that big) that I ran out, and I have played in open tourneys that the directors have pleaded for patience because they had no subs, so even those constraints or lack thereof don't solve the problem.

 

Many times it has been very useful being able to quickly communicate with members who have recently logged in, I find " quickly communicate" doesn't happen on the web version. It doesn't take that much longer but it does seem to take longer, possibly again because of having the two chat boxes, for reasons which totally escape me as it most certainly doesn't stop messages from being missent and just clutters up the screen.

[Curls77]

While we are on trnys.. Again in IAC, a teacher of a particular system set an IAC exclusive practice trny (pre-set hands) week ago to run this Saturday. He would like students to sign in timely, so he can decide how many boards would be optimum, if it should be open to overall BBO to get different competition, etc.

BUT, all students using web will see that trny only 2 hrs before its start, certainly not a week ahead as it was the plan. I guess it's just another + for good ole' client and a minus for a web.

 

 

One down. Someone who has been directing tourneys weekly for us pretty much since the club started, ( about 8 years now) as well as several weekly for another group, decided after trying to run them on the web version a few times that the day she loses the download version is the day she will no longer run any tourneys. Not expecting that to make any difference just letting you know.

I am one of IAC TDs, trained by Onoway in old version. But, as a 'new' member of BBO, I've never gained "addiction" to old windows client, and I tried both versions. For running IAC trnys I actually use BOTH, as I find web better in most for exception of asking for sub within a club, which is impossible in web.

It's very bad that IAC, or BBO overall, will lose a competent TD :( And even players that just won't find way to adjust (we still have MANY members that can't find IAC or trny in web). But, I wish to believe that all of them, once a comparsion is not an issue, as there won't be their "ole loved one", can keep an open mind and eventually they'll settle with web acess to a game and the site they love.

[OliverC]

While we are on trnys.. Again in IAC, a teacher of a particular system set an IAC exclusive practice trny (pre-set hands) week ago to run this Saturday. He would like students to sign in timely, so he can decide how many boards would be optimum, if it should be open to overall BBO to get different competition, etc.

BUT, all students using web will see that trny only 2 hrs before its start, certainly not a week ahead as it was the plan. I guess it's just another + for good ole' client and a minus for a web.

 

As the aforementioned teacher, Sanya, I hear you and I agree that it's a shame that the Browser Client doesn't give access to Tourneys further ahead. I suspect that's an easy enough fix in the long term, though. I've been a member of BBO for a long time now and definitely prefer using the Windows Client (probably because I'm more used to it). I tend to watch VuGraph on the Browser Client, though (for the voice support when it's available). I occasionally force myself to play using the web version (acclimatisation LOL) but I do find it awkward and clumsy compared to the Windows Client.

 

The main items on my wishlist all relate to teaching and helping to run a Private Club, however, rather than playing:

 

(1) I currently teach mostly using text chat rather than voice, because I can easily save the Chat Log of each Teaching Session and make it available on my own website for people who missed the lesson, for whatever reason. That functionality doesn't appear to be possible using the Browser Client.

 

(2) When I am setting up the Teaching Table as OliverC, I can log in simultaneously as bbo_iac in order to do announcements to Club Members without having to close down the teaching Table (which I generally open up quite some time before the lesson starts). I don't think the Browser Client will allow me to do announcements to the Club at all, let alone logged in simultaneously as 2 different ID's.

 

(3) When Teaching, I load pre-dealt example hands to run through the bidding, and then a separate set for Bidding/Play Practice at the end of the Teaching bit. I know it's possible to accomplish this (to some extent, anyway) with the Windows Client, but it's so convoluted and awkward a process that I gave it up last time I tried (as an experiment), and even now, I'm not sure I could reliably find my way through the maze of options to upload my choice of deals and then pick which ones I want to use in real time in the order in which I decide to use them, something that is trivially easy with the Windows Client.

 

(4) Losing battle coming up LOL: I teach an off-the-wall version of Super-Precision (OCP) and to help people to learn the system we've developed, over the years I've been teaching it, a set of very large Full Disclosure cards (about 12 in all, all of them near the 1Mb limit) that help people to grasp the system and learn it. Long term I try to persuade people to abandon FD, or at least to turn it "off" for themselves but it's indispensable for them during their early months with OCP. It's a shame that there's no support in the Browser Client for Full Disclosure (eg: editing the files or loading specific ones for use in a given situation with a given partner).

 

(5) Better support in the Browser Client for people who run Private (and Public) Clubs on BBO is a must, I feel. As someone else pointed out further up this thread, there are hundreds if not thousands of people who have learned to play Bridge on BBO and developed their skills in Private Teaching Clubs such as BIL, IAC etc. As it currently stands, turning off the Windows Client will be the death knell for Private Clubs, which would be a great shame.

 

Having said all of that, I do appreciate all of the work that Fred, Uday and the rest of the team put into BBO, and the literally priceless facilities that are available on the system for free (let alone the additional ones available for a trivially small price). When Jason Hackett and I were developing the system I teach back in the 1980's I'd have sold my mother for a Partnership Bidding Table such as BBO offers for nothing. If ditching the Windows Client is the way they feel they have to go, then so be it.

[joemanjo]

Let me add my two bits worth to what has been said already.

 

I teach Bridge, mostly offline but sometimes online as well. I have hundreds of LIN files that have been taken and edited to make "Learn to Play Bridge" software styled Book/Chapter/Lesson styled menu and presentations using features of the LIN scripting language. For making these LIN files, for me, the windows client is absolutely essential. The client provides the MOVIE feature where by each deal can be constructed and saved for further editing to make interactive presentations. A feature provided in the Flash browser version to migrate LIN files is a joke, it does not work for lesson presentations. I had posted a bug report on a separate forum for that, some Yellow ids tried to help there, but they too gave up saying Fred knows best. If the Windows client is being discontinued, it would be good if a "downgraded" client can be made available where LIN movie editing can be done without a net connection (at the moment it needs a login). There was a nuts and bolts LIN presentation creator for Windows earlier, can someone post a link to it to help out folks like me to go forward?

 

Secondly, one singularly helpful feature in Windows client is the "Save all chat" and "Save played deals" feature. I could use the first to make notes from online discussions to send to students, the second feature could be used for editing the played deals and send in self teaching lessons with interactive questions on areas where the student should have applied more thought. Both these could be used without any need for being online. There is nothing even close to these features in the Flash browser version. Chat rooms were also a good feature.

 

I used to direct tournaments using Windows client, however I tried my hand with the browser version and found that some of the nifty features in the Windows client made life so easy for TDs.

 

A strange "feature" (read bug) that I noticed was that if you are in a teaching room, your student is in browser client and you load a LIN file with a prepared deal, the deal which the student sees is completely different. I do not know if this is because I used 64-bit Windows and the Windows client software loading the deal was 32-bit, didnt have time to investigate, it is perhaps due to that. If both student and teacher used Windows client, there was no issue.

 

Manoj.

[filosofos]

Hi

 

Would it be possible to address the following points in the web version, before asking us to switch to it?

 

1. For me the biggest negative about the web version is that I cannot see the lobby. With the windows client, I could see everyone and hence look at their profile, even if they were not playing at a table. This is very important to me as I only play one system (Acol with 4 card openings whereas the default system on BBO is a 5 card system) and it is difficult for me to find a partner on BBO who plays Acol when the Acol club is not in operation. Most Acol players are based in the UK and the time difference means that usually the Acol club is not in operation when I am logged in. Besides, many Acol players do not even play in the Acol club. The only way for me to find potential partners is to look at their profiles in the lobby.

 

2. When kibitzing, I cannot see who else is kibitzing, in case I want to chat with them.

 

3. The web version does not seem to save hands I have played onto my hard drive like the Windows client does. Is there something I am missing here?

 

4. When a friend logs out there is no indication, such as a colour change in the chat.

 

5. It takes much longer to log in using the web version, while it loads. This is a disadvantage if one is disconnected during a tournament, as the longer time means one is often replaced by the time one returns.

 

Judging by other comments, I am not convinced of the need to switch, but if we really must, I would appreciate it if the above features could be incorporated into the web version, especially the first 3 mentioned. These are very important to me in my enjoyment of online bridge so it would be highly appreciated if the removal of the Windows version could be delayed until they are sorted out.

[barmar]

Hi

 

Would it be possible to address the following points in the web version, before asking us to switch to it?

 

1. For me the biggest negative about the web version is that I cannot see the lobby. With the windows client, I could see everyone and hence look at their profile, even if they were not playing at a table. This is very important to me as I only play one system (Acol with 4 card openings whereas the default system on BBO is a 5 card system) and it is difficult for me to find a partner on BBO who plays Acol when the Acol club is not in operation. Most Acol players are based in the UK and the time difference means that usually the Acol club is not in operation when I am logged in. Besides, many Acol players do not even play in the Acol club. The only way for me to find potential partners is to look at their profiles in the lobby.

This isn't likely to happen. One of the main design differences in the web version is that it significantly reduces the amount of traffic between the server and client. Starting up the Windows version takes a while because the server has to send all the players to the client, and then it constantly notifies the client of all logins and logouts so it can keep its list up to date. We consciously removed all this in the web version, and we're not going to put it back.

 

There are thousands of players in the lobby, can you really effectively scan it looking for players with something specific in their profiles?

2. When kibitzing, I cannot see who else is kibitzing, in case I want to chat with them.

Select "Who's Online" from the tab on the right, then "Kibitzers" from the tab at the top.

3. The web version does not seem to save hands I have played onto my hard drive like the Windows client does. Is there something I am missing here?

No, you're not missing anything. Flash doesn't allow applications to write files to disk by themselves, only by going through a File-save dialogue.

 

The web version allows you to save hands online. It's not automatic like the Windows version, you have to save specific hands. See http://www.bridgebase.com/help/v2help/hand_records.html for how to do it.

4. When a friend logs out there is no indication, such as a colour change in the chat.

True. I've often replied to a chat message, and it ended up being sent as mail because they'd just logged out.

5. It takes much longer to log in using the web version, while it loads. This is a disadvantage if one is disconnected during a tournament, as the longer time means one is often replaced by the time one returns.

Logging into the web version usually takes a second or two. It's certainly faster than waiting for the Windows version to load the player list. It shouldn't take long to load, as the browser usually has it cached, except for the first time after we deploy an update.

[scarletv]

This isn't likely to happen. One of the main design differences in the web version is that it significantly reduces the amount of traffic between the server and client. Starting up the Windows version takes a while because the server has to send all the players to the client, and then it constantly notifies the client of all logins and logouts so it can keep its list up to date. We consciously removed all this in the web version, and we're not going to put it back.

 

There are thousands of players in the lobby, can you really effectively scan it looking for players with something specific in their profiles?

A good filter could improve that for sure but at least it is possible to find someone which is not possible in the browser version.

 

I understand very well that the system traffic caused by doing it for each player and always is a big stress for the system. But why not offer it as an on demand filter function at some places? This would be a big improvement for the table lists or the lobby. Please think about if you could implement something like that with the next BBO generation. I am sure a lot of players would benefit not only ACOL players. It is easy to find a partner for 2/1 standard without search functionality, but much harder when you want to play a less popular system and carding. Making friends on BBO is only possible when you are able to find them in the haystack.

[filosofos]

Barmar, thank you for your reply.

 

I have to say, I still find the Windows client faster for logging in (almost instant) whereas the web version shows a series of dots moving left to right while it loads and then again while logging in. This lasts several seconds, sometimes longer. My browser and internet speed are good.

 

There is already a filter for the lobby on the Windows client. You can choose people from particular countries to see. This is handy as Acol is more commonly played in certain countries more than others. Therefore I don't have all that many people to scroll through.

 

Anyway, if I can't convince you, I guess I'll have to learn to live without the lobby. Thanks for your help in sorting out my other questions.

[eamongall]

Good evening folks (or morning or afternoon) depending on your location

 

When the Windows version of BBO is gone I don't think I can do the below setup.

 

Currently one of my main uses of BBO is for preparing online Bidding practice sessions for the Irish Open bridge team.

Several offshoots of this application follow for lesser players.

I generally focus on competitive/interference/pre-emptive bidding as life is easy when the opps are silent.

My friends main requirement in a bidding session is that the GIBS will interfere regularly so therefore I need deals where

the robot acts on many hands so I must pre test the deals to get best use of time.

 

The international players give me many scenarios that they would like to practice and I produce a session and then load

the hands into the account of the designated table server of the practicing pair.

 

Here is the brief description

 

1. Open a partnership bidding table on web based BBO using Malahide as my account

2. Generate the script to describe the scenario required and when happy we are ready to go

3. Open a Windows BBO using Eamongall to record the generated and tested deals

4. Generate and examine boards and it they seem suitable keep them and continue

5. Example if I see 1NT P P P ..I skip it

6. I end up with a file of 64 or less hands and save it as some relevant name

7. Later I will load the file into the various BBO accounts

8. the players will do their bidding practice in their own time

 

Problem

 

I don't think the Web Based BBO allows me any export function of any hand sets without major surgery

and time from me.

Currently 1 hour work will get me 2 sets of 64 tested hands for bidding practice sessions

 

The next web based BBO will allow me to only have the hands saved in my BBO account but I cannot easily

transfer them to other BBO accounts

 

Thanks

Eamon Galligan

Eamongall on BBO

[BaldJean]

I am extremely disappointed that the Windows version of BBO will be retired on Feb 1st. I much prefer the Windows version because the graphics are so much superior to the graphics of the browser version.

[lycier]

Many chinese players told me that in many cases, not easy to log into BBO by web BBO, but relatively easy to log into old version BBO.

This is a disappointing news.

[barmar]

Many chinese players told me that in many cases, not easy to log into BBO by web BBO, but relatively easy to log into old version BBO.

This is a disappointing news.

They should contact support@bridgebase.com to ask for help with logging into the web version. Don't wait until the last minute.

[lycier]

Ok， I did, thank you for your help.

[Zelandakh]

Is space really at a premium? Modern PCs offer very high resolutions.

Apparently not high enough to allow for a decent display of the dummy! Not even as an option that can be turned off!!!

[Zelandakh]

In browser, when we are in any room, specifically some club, private or public, at top left we can choose to see 1) Open tables, 2) Full tables or 3) tables with friends. Altho, all very useful, it would be great if we could also see ALL tables currently open.

I also find the lack of an option for displaying all tables a significant disadvantage for club play.

 

 

There are thousands of players in the lobby, can you really effectively scan it looking for players with something specific in their profiles?

When I first found BBO I made the effort to filter the lobby list by country, selecting only those from the UK and constituent parts. I then marked suitable profiles as friends, which eventually led to my getting to know some folks on the site. I found this feature instantly gave BBO a friendlier feel than the other bridge sites I had tried that did not offer such a process for finding like-minded contacts.

[onoway]

listing at least all the friends is hugely useful for times of running tourneys, especially since the web version doesn't allow for members who offer to sub to be differentiated from the general public. I can see club members who have just logged in and ask if they are interested in subbing..usually they are. When we lose this feature we lose and the members lose as often they look around, don't see a game available that suits them so they go away. This way they get to play and we have a smoother running tourney.

 

That would be infinitely more useful than the fragments of conversation from other areas in BBO which take up a whole lot of space for no apparent purpose. If we must have clutter then please let it be useful clutter at least.

[barmar]

The web version does list all friends. Click on Who's Online and select the Friends tab.